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Too Many Notes?
- Thread starter FirewalZ
- Start date
It's tricky. In the past, whenever some band member has complained about a busy bass line, I'd ask why they thought it was too busy. The response was always the same - they were having trouble following the song. They'd get lost. Especially guitarists, but sometimes singers too.
For the last decade or so I've tried to keep my bass lines very close to the cover version. I know it's a tired cliche, but we (bassists) are the glue in most songs.
I still do fills, and have moments to shine, but I also sing harmony and lead on some songs, and run the lights, so I'm pretty busy helping to put on a show. I don't care if people see me burn up and down the fretboard. I can, whenever I want, but nobody in the crowd is there for that.
Some old blues guy told me once, "We spend half our lives learning how to play, and the other half learning how not to." I'm sure he stole the line from someone else, but it's a good one. Took me awhile to get it.
Anyway, do whatever you want. But I'm pretty sure your band doesn't like the busy bass lines because they're losing their place in the song. That's been my experience. YMMV.
EDIT: Just saw another post by you. Seems your band members aren't complaining, just some guys in the crowd? In that case, meh, ignore'em. If your band is happy, the women are dancing, and the bar is selling booze, that's all that matters.
For the last decade or so I've tried to keep my bass lines very close to the cover version. I know it's a tired cliche, but we (bassists) are the glue in most songs.
I still do fills, and have moments to shine, but I also sing harmony and lead on some songs, and run the lights, so I'm pretty busy helping to put on a show. I don't care if people see me burn up and down the fretboard. I can, whenever I want, but nobody in the crowd is there for that.
Some old blues guy told me once, "We spend half our lives learning how to play, and the other half learning how not to." I'm sure he stole the line from someone else, but it's a good one. Took me awhile to get it.
Anyway, do whatever you want. But I'm pretty sure your band doesn't like the busy bass lines because they're losing their place in the song. That's been my experience. YMMV.
EDIT: Just saw another post by you. Seems your band members aren't complaining, just some guys in the crowd? In that case, meh, ignore'em. If your band is happy, the women are dancing, and the bar is selling booze, that's all that matters.
If less is more, then doing nothing is the pinnacle.
Smooth_bass88
vaxx!
- Oct 31, 2006
- 12,122
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If you're playing covers you really shouldn't embellish the already written parts unless you're like jamming or something.
Some gigs require this type of playing but really, it might sound cool to you but most people don't want to hear overly busy basslines. They just want meat n potatos...especially if that's what is already there.
Some gigs require this type of playing but really, it might sound cool to you but most people don't want to hear overly busy basslines. They just want meat n potatos...especially if that's what is already there.
I say play on, maestro.
One other thing I can say is that I never listen to bass players when I'm at their gigs. I _certainly_ don't listen to them when they're at mine.
I do listen to their drummers, usually, but if I pay attention to the bassist at all it's because they did something out of the ordinary. If anyone comments on my playing it's for the same reason.
I'd rather not be ordinary. How 'bout you?
One other thing I can say is that I never listen to bass players when I'm at their gigs. I _certainly_ don't listen to them when they're at mine.
I do listen to their drummers, usually, but if I pay attention to the bassist at all it's because they did something out of the ordinary. If anyone comments on my playing it's for the same reason.
I'd rather not be ordinary. How 'bout you?
It's all in the ear of the behearer. Years ago, a bandleader urged me to play more simply. 'Play fewer notes,' he said. He then gave me a tape to emulate that had more notes crammed into it than I could count, let alone play. Made me wonder, until this very day, what he was really listening to. And until this very day, he is among the very few people that I would not be in a band with again. Beware.
\Taking an honest look and a bit of self analysis, I have probably been overdoing it a touch and I think there is a fine line that is sometimes difficult to tell when crossed until after the fact(why the heck did I just play that?
Great Australian motorcycle racer, Mick Doohan, once said that they are always riding as close to the edge as possible and you really don't know exactly where the edge is until you go over it occasionally. Hopefully when you find the edge it doesn't end up in the gravel too bad.
It's the same with music. How do you know where the line is until you cross it occasionally. You seem to have really answered your question admirably. You occasionally go over that line but you are now looking and listening to what you play in order to avoid that.
I quite enjoy playing bass occasionally with a local ukulele band. They are on the whole non-musicians who took up the uke late in life and they all just play rhythm (and all on the same chord shape). It allows me to try things that I would never dream of trying in any other band setting. Sometimes it works, sometimes it ends in a train wreck..... most of the time these folks don't even notice when I crash the train.
I don't like overly busy bass lines either. But I like a bass line that's not too predictable, yet supports the song. Think Tal Wilkenfeld, calm when not soloing with note selection that is interesting yet solidly supports the tune without being boring.
Of course some guitarists, and most vocalists are easily distracted and find it hard to concentrate. Or they're just scared of change. Maybe that's why many like the same fifty old rock songs to begin with.
Of course some guitarists, and most vocalists are easily distracted and find it hard to concentrate. Or they're just scared of change. Maybe that's why many like the same fifty old rock songs to begin with.
I grew up playing in Classic Rock bands. (Both guitar and bass.) When my buddy asked me to join his Swing Blues band, and I saw those booties hitting the dance floor because of a walking/swinging Bassline, it changed my whole perspective. For the better, I might add. YMMV.
Perfection is not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to remove...
On the other hand, you are your music, and what you feel you should do is your choice, so everybody else's opinion comes second to your own, specially if you don't have to compromise your taste for revenue/status/carrer.... Good for you, and keep rocking.
BTW, i have had this same problem, a band that loved my playing, but the guitar guy wanted me to "stay in the pocket".... Stay where????
It all depends on the situation and the dynamic within the band. I play in a band that does all 70s guitar rock. We are a trio and the guitar player is more of a rhythm player so he often looks to me to fill up space and play more, especially under his solos and of course playing more is of course ok with me..haha. If we were a 5 piece with keys and a second guitar player I probably wouldn't play as much.
^^^THIS^^^
I too have been accused in the past of being too busy, but never by the audience. Usually it was some guitard who wanted to play only blues and believed that the bass player was merely a platform for his wankery and everyone was just dying to hear his 20 minute solo until I stepped on it by daring to play a triplet. That said, as I've gotten older, I've gotten better at note selection and never hear any complaints. However, I still dread playing with other players who have a strict interpretation of what they believe the bass should be doing. I usually tell them to go find someone with a higher boredom threshold.
No. When I'm on stage by myself ... I can be "just me". But in a band, I'm there to support the song, which means it isn't "just me" ... it's "just us". I just turned down an upright bass player who auditioned for our band (I want to move back over to rhythm guitar in this project) for "playing too many notes". He never supported the groove or feel of the songs as I thought he ought. Yes, playing a country waltz is dead boring ... but adding more to it doesn't make it better, just busier. There's more to musicianship than the right notes or number of notes one plays.
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This is a tricky one because there are people who can overplay and make it sound natural and right. I think of guys like Entwistle who took a lot of crap and got mixed in a way he didn't like on a lot of Who albums. Or Chris Squire, who got the same. I'm very loath to tell someone they overplay without hearing them.
i've been guilty of some over playing ... on keys and bass , ... definitely when i was younger and more into ' showing off ' a bit ... after decades of practice ... why not ... only time and trial/error will help find those ' just right ' moments that need something ...
if it's all the time , ... or the same stuff over and over ... it can get rather over bearing ... if it's all done with good taste , ... i'm not overly worried about what others think about it .. !
if it's all the time , ... or the same stuff over and over ... it can get rather over bearing ... if it's all done with good taste , ... i'm not overly worried about what others think about it .. !
While there are a lot of great points I think context is always important; but pontification about a weekend warrior who might over play in a classic rock cover band?
If ZZ Top calls, then pump the root and take the loot, until then just play it the way you want to.
If ZZ Top calls, then pump the root and take the loot, until then just play it the way you want to.
It's a possibility, and I'll admit, I don't know this is true, but you might be doing something that changes the "feel" of the song that has some folks commenting on your style.
This is a hard one to describe with just words, but Imagine replacing a simple root-five bass line with a walking scale type bass line. It totally changes the feel & flow of the song. I'm not saying that's specifically what you are doing, but you might be playing through some passages in the song where the bass is sparse in the original version, or the "additional" notes you are playing may give the song a different rythym / tempo / style to the ears of some listeners.
99% of the folks I've played for over the years want to hear songs very close to how they last heard them on the radio. They forgive tone differences, vocal differences, etc, but they want the tempo and structure to be like the original. I'm not at all sure that's what you are experiencing with the criticism, I'm just saying its a possibility.
So, if your playing is giving a reggae feel, or speed metal feel to Sweet Home Alabama, you might be playing too many notes (or not enough notes) to give the song its normal "feel"....
This is a hard one to describe with just words, but Imagine replacing a simple root-five bass line with a walking scale type bass line. It totally changes the feel & flow of the song. I'm not saying that's specifically what you are doing, but you might be playing through some passages in the song where the bass is sparse in the original version, or the "additional" notes you are playing may give the song a different rythym / tempo / style to the ears of some listeners.
99% of the folks I've played for over the years want to hear songs very close to how they last heard them on the radio. They forgive tone differences, vocal differences, etc, but they want the tempo and structure to be like the original. I'm not at all sure that's what you are experiencing with the criticism, I'm just saying its a possibility.
So, if your playing is giving a reggae feel, or speed metal feel to Sweet Home Alabama, you might be playing too many notes (or not enough notes) to give the song its normal "feel"....
I'm noticing your awareness isn't that great.
I asked a simple question some time back and you never noticed, you were doing your thing. Is this also the way you interact with the other band members on the bandstand?
I asked a simple question some time back and you never noticed, you were doing your thing. Is this also the way you interact with the other band members on the bandstand?
Yes but they think they are.
Ask them to play more Led Zeppelin and The Who, or other covers with more active bass players. I completely understand the doing this as a fun hobby and the desire to have more of yourself come out in the band. Depending on the dynamics of the band and your role in it, this can work or not. One of the reasons I have been working on my own music lately instead of looking for a local band to play in. Good luck.
