I'm just happy that there are still people out there who are willing to see live concerts (some with actual musicians onstage!). If the mix is good, that's a bonus.
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Too much bass
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I agree with your sentiment, but a good mix should not have to be considered a "bonus." It is what you should expect for your money.
Good thread! I started a similar thread on this subject on the audio-engineering forum Gearslutz.
I have noticed this issue a lot more recently. It was particularly obvious at a recent Ziggy Marley concert. Normally in reggae music the bass drives the low end, especially when the drummer plays a "one-drop" where the kick only hits on beat 3. It was aweful. The kick was obnoxiously loud and you could barely hear the bass.
Like it was mentioned already, my explaination is that more and more sound guys are from a younger generation and might have gotten to this job from a DJ background as opposed to a musician background.
They don't know that not every type of music can be mixed with a pounding kick/bass and how to mix the kick/bass frequencies.
I have noticed this issue a lot more recently. It was particularly obvious at a recent Ziggy Marley concert. Normally in reggae music the bass drives the low end, especially when the drummer plays a "one-drop" where the kick only hits on beat 3. It was aweful. The kick was obnoxiously loud and you could barely hear the bass.
Like it was mentioned already, my explaination is that more and more sound guys are from a younger generation and might have gotten to this job from a DJ background as opposed to a musician background.
They don't know that not every type of music can be mixed with a pounding kick/bass and how to mix the kick/bass frequencies.
Most shows I see are tiny, and sound awesome. Like Steven wilson, magma, secret chiefs 3, Beardfish, the tubes. All great sound .
I was talked into seeing dream theater a couple months back. Not sure the bass was even going to the board. Awful concert soundwise, and songwise. Good players with bad music.....
I was talked into seeing dream theater a couple months back. Not sure the bass was even going to the board. Awful concert soundwise, and songwise. Good players with bad music.....
Just a guess (on the smaller stages) , too many "Soundmen" using the crossover in their sub's instead of a proper crossover they can adjust while setting up the system, vs relying on good, bad or cheap subs to do the work. Maybe skimping on the sub quality also, or like a lot have said, the new norm is mush vs punch.
I saw Slash twice on his last tour and the sound was superb in 2 venues. One outdoor in Orlando. and one at the Hard Rock Live in Hollywood FL( 5500 seat venue the house sound and the guys are great) That being said I assume Slash's help has a hand in the mix. Both shows sounded the same and perfect. Todd Kerns bass was punchy and articulate everything else superb.
I also saw Duran Duran, Whitesnake, and Kings of Chaos (Duff Mckagan, Gilbey Clark, Matt Sorum,Glenn Hughes, Steve Stevens, Robin Zander, and Billy Gibbons) at the same HardRock Live in Hollywood FL and the sound was perfect. The moral of the story is some venues have great sound guys but the band is still responsible for delivering the goods.
In my situation I still have to hope for the best when PA/sound guy and/or backline is provided but it would probably still behoove us to have our own guy show up if possible. Doesn't matter who you are if the sound sucks.
This whole thread has me wringing my hands with anxiety.
I also saw Duran Duran, Whitesnake, and Kings of Chaos (Duff Mckagan, Gilbey Clark, Matt Sorum,Glenn Hughes, Steve Stevens, Robin Zander, and Billy Gibbons) at the same HardRock Live in Hollywood FL and the sound was perfect. The moral of the story is some venues have great sound guys but the band is still responsible for delivering the goods.
In my situation I still have to hope for the best when PA/sound guy and/or backline is provided but it would probably still behoove us to have our own guy show up if possible. Doesn't matter who you are if the sound sucks.
This whole thread has me wringing my hands with anxiety.
One of many reasons I rarely go to concerts anymore. $200 to listen to mud and have a headache afterword.
Went to see Hiromi a few months a go. I was very excited finally see Anthony Jackson playing live. I could see his face, not his hands cause he was reading from sheetmusic that spanned 4/5 pages per song in front of him.
And indeed I didn't hear anything. Just a lot of low zoom, nothing articulate. I too remember sound quality being much better live, long ago.
Hiromi and Simon Philips were great though, btw.
And indeed I didn't hear anything. Just a lot of low zoom, nothing articulate. I too remember sound quality being much better live, long ago.
Hiromi and Simon Philips were great though, btw.
And of course you caused the misery of a young, impressionable bassist by calling out our favorite song. Nice going.
It's what younger people want / expect. I have zero clue why. Even headphones! Go to best buy and almost every headphone offered is configured to add a ton of bass. Very silly.
And of course you caused the misery of a young, impressionable bassist by calling out our favorite song. Nice going.
I could have asked for "Comedown" but I didn't.
They mic'd the guitarist's cab for the second set: even better. I was just wishing I could play like them.
Yeah I'm this way also. The biggest venue I like to go to is the nearest house of blues. Even there the bass is mostly sub but at least I can hear some differences from band to band.
our sound "engineer" it is a bass player, sound people must follow his orders, the bass eq presets for all four different bassits: +10 db in the 40-60 hz; -5 250-800 hz; +10db on 2k-4k; I was running the sound with him, I could not distinguished the bass at all and he said: the bass is too loud 
Yeah, I think the last shows I can remember going to where the sound wasn't garbled, muddy, and about four times louder than it needed to be were like, MuteMath and maybe Circa Survive. Other than that, most shows, metal and rock shows in particular, have those problems.
This has ruined my experience of going to see bands. I'm frikkin' shell shocked! Went to a Funk Show at the Hampton Coliseum a few years back and it was a bloody mess sound wise. Just insanely loud and bass drum heavy. Couldn't hear the bass at all. Funk without bass? Inconceivable!! Went to another area Jazz fest in Norfolk and the Rippingtons were on the bill. Not sure what the heck was going on but the bass was mixed so bad...it was a sonic mess. I was sitting right in front of the soundbooth. I kept turning back and looking at the sound folks shaking my head in disgust! Just horrible.
Went to see the Tedeschi Trucks band. They had two drummers, the bass drums were by far the loudest things in the mix but I don't think the drummers could hear each other on stage. The drums weren't in sync. I was really looking forward to this concert but it was horrible.
I like it to some degree. I mean I do like physically experiences the music. How the bass just hits you in the gut. At the same time though the mids and highs have to be there. I'm not into sine wave sounding bass. I want to hear that it's a bass guitar. Doesn't always have to have a ton of mids but I want to hear string noise and attack and stuff actually be able to hear it's a bass guitar and not keyboard bass. Without that stuff music loses a lot of the human element I personally love about live shows.
