Too Much Winging & Not Enough Structure?

[dkelley]

I'm tellin ya - being the BASS player in a group requires that you know the changes, at least the root chords and beats that those chords/roots change. In your situation OP I'd keep a sheet of paper there that at least has keys, maybe writes note names quickly for opening of each song, cuz often that's enough to remember the whole thing. I might also write "chorus" and a few main notes for that too. One sheet, containing all songs infos that way in short form. Better than going "Wait, how does 'Joe cries me a river over texas in may?' go again?" LoL

k, having a flashback here, so don't mind me while I:
<rant>

One of the single scariest things in the world to me, personally, is to sit in and jam as a bassist, specially when called up to play on stage cuz someone there recognizes you or knows you from somewhere.

Why? Because the bassist HAS to know the song chords and STRUCTURE for it to work, and guitarists are used to following along and learning from the bassist, and singers need the bass to be right or it won't work. I know that's over simplification, and lots of guitarists understand that they have to show the roots/left hand to the bassist if the bassist doesn't know the song.

But seriously - try playing bass in a situation where everyone else knows the songs and you don't.... they call a song title, you are like, I have no idea what that is, and everyone says it's ok, you'll figure it out. YOU'LL FIGURE IT OUT?? I am really good at picking up songs very quickly, but I mean if you don't know the song, you will likely play it totally differently from the original.

It's not like if you get lost you can stop playing. It's not like if you get lost, you can solo.

It's not like DURING EVERYONE'S SOLOS YOU CAN FOLLOW THEM OR ANYTHING. And if you haven't had a chance to learn the progression after playing through it once, maybe twice, following the guitarist during a verse, you're screwed during open solos. Worse yet, I have frequently found myself yelling, literally yelling, at the guitarist or drummer, WHICH SECTION DO THEY SOLO OVER? VERSE OR CHORUS? And I ALWAYS get a blank stare back, as though that's the stupidest question in the world.

And instead of anyone yelling at me to say "G" or "VERSE" or "CHORUS" during a solo so I know what bass part to play, they keep going over whatever I decide to play, and afterwards say "it's ok, you'll get it eventually". To which I always say, "I got it just fine, but if you don't tell me which part you are soloing over, how would I know? Just yell it out and I would have played it right."

Sorry LoL - bad memories coming back right now in a flood

</rant>

 

[LBS-bass]

Take a few minutes before each song you don't know and get the guitarist to tell you the chord structure. Write it down, use it as a guide, and then type it up later to create a collection of charts. You'll get close with the charts and you can then use them afterwards to go through the actual songs and get closer- as close as you want, depending on what you want. Recording rehearsals is maybe helpful but not that important unless the band is deviating significantly from the versions you're covering.

I'm not a strict copier but I do appreciate getting the important bits right. I also can play a fake version of just about anything, sorta, if it's a song I've heard a few times. The band I was in pre-covid used to spend a good bit of up-front time exploring what we all could pull off, just for fun. Guitarist would pull a song out of the air and we'd be off and running. It was fun. We also had to spend a bit of time rehearsing for upcoming shows, so the second part of the rehearsal would involve working on our set list for the next show. We might add something for that show from our jam set, if we'd done something fun that we thought would work. So I'd take those jam songs that ended up on the set list and work on them further to get the signature parts down, then we'd all have them tighter for the show.

Point is, it's doubtful there are very many shows to prepare for right now, so anything you do can be for fun, with little urgency. But if you sort through what you've enjoyed the most at each one of these sessions, you can still make lists of things to improve, and come up with a fairly methodical way to get something done each week.

 

[wboyd68]

i used to play at a lot of jams, and i got pretty good at winging it. it can be a lot of fun!

Learning to wing it convincingly is what keeps me playing bass.

 

[Slough Feg Bass]

My surf band is like that...we have 60+ songs in our catalog, and there is no way we are going to expect someone to come in with all that together, so we tell them to wing it. I shout out the key and stops and starts before and during the song, and it comes together pretty well after a few gigs, they get the hang of it and slowly the songs become more familiar, as there are certain ones we play every time, some not so often. We usually give them the 12 main tunes we play beforehand, so at least they can listen to those, and many of the others are similar to some of those main ones.
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Just go for it, and it you are not having fun, then move on!

 

[SimonSays32]

Man, that sounds like a band I'd like to hear - I'd say don't worry much, take the time to get to know how they play.

If they were happy with your Joe Jackson bass line - it was probably because it was an interpretation of a memory. It sounds like they are focused on originals - which means, they likely enjoy their covers sounding more like their originals.

You have only been with this band for 4 weeks, and they have years in together in a creative capacity - they are looking for someone who can fit in with that, which is going to take more than 4 weeks because they aren't focused in the same way a good cover band would be.

Just focus on how they are playing and try to fit in - don't worry about the warts/mistakes, that will all smooth over as you get in tune with each other at that creative level.

In the meantime - I quickly glanced at someone saying to record the rehearsals, and that is a great idea to get acquainted with how they sound and where you are in relation to them. Side benefit is you might end up with some really cool documents of song ideas, or good performances, etc.

Overall - I think if you are patient with them, eventually you will be rewarded with being in a fun original music band that thrives on creativity.

One of the single scariest things in the world to me, personally, is to sit in and jam as a bassist, specially when called up to play on stage cuz someone there recognizes you or knows you from somewhere.

Why? Because the bassist HAS to know the song chords and STRUCTURE for it to work, and guitarists are used to following along and learning from the bassist, and singers need the bass to be right or it won't work. I know that's over simplification, and lots of guitarists understand that they have to show the roots/left hand to the bassist if the bassist doesn't know the song.

But seriously - try playing bass in a situation where everyone else knows the songs and you don't.... they call a song title, you are like, I have no idea what that is, and everyone says it's ok, you'll figure it out. YOU'LL FIGURE IT OUT?? I am really good at picking up songs very quickly, but I mean if you don't know the song, you will likely play it totally differently from the original.

I have been in that situation a few times - my go to is always, I'll do it if you improvise something with me as I am certainly not going to sit in and fake a song with a band I have no inherent chemistry with.

If/when they accept - I always pick Born Under Punches by Talking Heads (specifically the version from their first live album). It's in G, fairly simple for everybody to get going on and allows for the guitar/keyboard players to have lots of fun. If the singers don't know it they can choose to sit it out, or pull up the lyrics and wing it because even though the song does contain plenty of discernible and memorable melodic vocal lines it is very easy to just do your own thing over it (I've even had singers just come up with their own lyrics over top - one guy just sang out movie quotes, it was hilarious).

I mean - I have been called up at jams to play on songs like Hey Joe, or House of the Rising Sun or whatever other old barroom standard you might think of, and that is not as anxiety inducing as the thought of being asked to play a Michael Jack song from memory.

 

[BassDad1964]

We don't get better as players by staying in our comfort zone. That being said, no problem in asking for a songlist of upcoming rehearsal tunes.

 

[murph7489]

Should Grateful Dead songs be played note for note / as recorded?

well yes and no...the structure of the song must be there..but in this band's songs there is a LOT of room for improv..obviously you can't go crazy and just play anything however I also believe it to be true that in order to play their songs in a band well, you have to be able to improv and you also need a deep familiarity with their live versions in the 70s and 80s era's because there are differences..you need to study Phil Lesh's style of playing..I don't think you can sit down and learn their songs off the records or note for note and do it justice..go watch Troy on youtube cover touch of grey...he does it very well but even he said that there are so many changes and different ways phil plays each verse that it is very difficult to learn it note for note..