Too Much Winging & Not Enough Structure?

[Ron Berenato]

I was approached by a blues band once who asked if I'd be interested in filling in when their bass player was otherwise engaged. I asked for a song list and was told "don't you know all the blues shuffles?" They thought I was an amateur for even asking. I passed.

I did do a gig once with my fathers band completely cold. I had a song list with the key for each (50's and 60's pop and jazz standards). Anytime my walking bass lines became busy the sax player would stop playing - thinking I was taking a solo. It was nerve wracking. I like to be prepared.

 

[el murdoque]

I am sub for a band that has 3 core players. Two of them are a couple and they are close friends with the third. They have two more players as their official lineup, but the three of them travel quite a bit and tend to book gigs wherever they go. If that happens to be within a 2 hours drive from my home, they ask me to join.
We never rehearse, and they often change the songs a bit. So the unspoken agreement we have is that I'll wing it the entire evening, not learing any of their material. We tried it a few times when they played in places 5 minutes from my home - and they seemed to like it so much they booked me for higher profile gigs.
I've done this dozens of times now, but every time I get in the car to drive to the gig, I get quite nervous.
Like, what happens if they throw something at me that I can't handle (I usually roll off the highs and play close to the bassdrum and as low as possible) and I trainwreck the whole piece?
Having done this multiple times with great success does not really help. It's impossible to replace the excitement with routine. I somehow came to grips with that.
However, I strongly prefer to have songs that are well practiced with the others. Songs that can have stops, unexpected changes, intros and endings and stuff like that.

 

[EdO.]

Should Grateful Dead songs be played note for note / as recorded?

Does anyone actually play Grateful Dead covers these days? Our band plays stuff suited mostly for a 40-and-up age group and I seriously doubt that if they heard a Dead cover they'd know what it was or even care.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Does anyone actually play Grateful Dead covers these days? Our band plays stuff suited mostly for a 40-and-up age group and I seriously doubt that if they heard a Dead cover they'd know what it was or even care.

We do Truckin'. That seems to still have almost universal recognition, to the point of cliché, sure. We try to add more recent songs, but the twenty somethings don't really want to hear us. They want EDM. The thirty somethings are stuck at home with kids. So, 40 and 50 somethings tend to be who is coming out, at least around here. It's also too expensive for young people starting out, for the most part.

 

[EdO.]

Same here, it's mostly 40-and-up who come out so that's who we target. Lots of 80's, yacht rock, classic radio hits with lots of harmony vocals. Works for us.

 

[acid bass]

Every song is a I IV V I.

You dare disrespect the vi?!?!

 

[Staredge]

Should Grateful Dead songs be played note for note / as recorded?

To be fair, they never actually played it the same way once.

Songs that are likely to be played by, a cover band? Yeah. Album versions probably should be.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

To be fair, they never actually played it the same way once.

Songs that are likely to be played by, a cover band? Yeah. Album versions probably should be.

Yeah, that was my point. Maybe a little more freedom for covers of jam bands. (I personally am not an advocate for note for note unless it's an iconic bass line)

 

[Yellow Bang66]

I've been playing with a drummer and guitar player once a week for the last 4 weeks. These guys have played together in a couple of different groups and they blaze through 20-25 songs each week. 15 or 20 of them are originals. I really like the original songs and enjoy the cover choices as well as the musicians. I'm usually comfortable and prepared for about 30% (7-8 songs) because we discussed them the week before but the rest are just a complete toss-up. The next week we might randomly repeat 10-12 from the previous week and then 10-13 are a toss-up again so then I only am prepared for like 15%. It is frustrating because I like to be prepared so when I try and nail them down on next week's list they both say "what you played tonight sounded fine, we don't wanna play the covers exactly like the original versions and the originals sound fine just keep winging it" but I wanna button things down a little.

For example, last week they tore into Joe Jackson's Sunday Paper. I love the song but I couldn't remember exactly how the entire bass part went from memory but I did remember enough to know that the bass part certainly matters in that song. I winged it and they were happy but when I went home and sat down with it I was embarrassed by what I had played at rehearsal and learned it correctly knowing that this week we might not play it again.

They know a ton of songs and I get that they don't want to be too regimented and predictable but I want to be predictable enough to sound good. Somehow they got the impression that I am trying to learn every single thing note for note but I just want to be in the ballpark of how each song goes and develop solid parts. I'm the new guy so I don't wanna come in and take control over the rehearsals but I only have a certain amount of time at home to prep. Anyone ever been in this situation? Any advice?

You Must communicate with them! let them know your feelings. just try to get them to understand your not trying to be perfect. but just want to be prepared not to be embarassed! I was in a band where their motto was something in spanish that meant, let it fall how it falls! we never went over anything twice or ironed out rough spots! I t drove me crazy,especially after gigs where we goofed a change or accent/hit. it was due to a lazy drummer. I talked to band, and Lead Guitarist pulled me aside & started going over those songs.

 

[ToneMonkey]

One thing that I haven't yet seen mentioned is that this is a three piece. It's REALLY easy for a guitarist and a drummer to play random songs all night. No one has to play the same notes as each other. When you add a bass, it becomes a BAND, and the bassist and guitarist need to be on the same page. I've seen guitarists do this so many times I can't count them all. That said, the tips above are good. I think ultimately you would at least demand (and get) a master list that captures everything they will ever play (for the most part). If it's 150 songs, you can't sit down in a weekend and learn them all, but you can start plugging through them methodically, listen to them all, spot the odd ducks and focus on them etc. I dunno, man, I wouldn't last. I might be able to hang ok, but it doesn't sound fun to me. Also bring a notebook to rehearsals and write everything down - like just take 30 seconds after each song and write a high-level chord sheet for each tune. This can save your bacon when the drummer is counting off Random Song 569 and you'd at least like to come in on the right note.

My final Contemporary Christian Worship situation was like this. Worship leader guitarist was one of those guys who never really knew what the heck he was doing at any time. He'd sort of try to chart stuff out. But as the bassist, I was the only one that really needed it. The guitarist would do his random thing, the drummer would keep the beat, singers just read printed lyrics. One week he didn't even make the effort. Even worse, at some point he blamed me for it being a trainwreck during sound check. I unplugged, loaded out on the spot and never came back.

 

[ToneMonkey]

I was approached by a blues band once who asked if I'd be interested in filling in when their bass player was otherwise engaged. I asked for a song list and was told "don't you know all the blues shuffles?" They thought I was an amateur for even asking. I passed.

I did do a gig once with my fathers band completely cold. I had a song list with the key for each (50's and 60's pop and jazz standards). Anytime my walking bass lines became busy the sax player would stop playing - thinking I was taking a solo. It was nerve wracking. I like to be prepared.

I know a really excellent blues bassist like that. He hates to rehearse. He's just so spontaneous and fluid, he just rolls with whatever is going on. He's amazing. But I can't play that way.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

My final Contemporary Christian Worship situation was like this. Worship leader guitarist was one of those guys who never really knew what the heck he was doing at any time. He'd sort of try to chart stuff out. But as the bassist, I was the only one that really needed it. The guitarist would do his random thing, the drummer would keep the beat, singers just read printed lyrics. One week he didn't even make the effort. Even worse, at some point he barked some BS at me during sound check. I unplugged, loaded out on the spot and never came back.

Let me guess, ambient swells?

 

[marchone]

Should Grateful Dead songs be played note for note / as recorded?

You beat me to it. The Dead, the Stones, even Zeppelin among many many others. Samba, Bossa Nova, smooth jazz. Not all music is structured tightly.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

You beat me to it. The Dead, the Stones, even Zeppelin among many many others. Samba, Bossa Nova, smooth jazz. Not all music is structured tightly.

If you're a tribute band, sure, strive for note for note, but for a cover band if you can tastefully give it a little spin, I find that more interesting. If I want note for note, there is Pandora for businesses that only costs ~$30 per month including licensing fees. And those are going to be note for note.

 

[74hc]

But winging it is what we do best at church! Holy moly, did the singers and keyboardist ever wing it for Remembrance by Maher and Redman last Sunday.

They would come apart on the last measure of the verses and the first measure of the refrain. As we were approaching the end of each verse, I kept thinking "here we go".

Then there is me which I like to say, "on the wings of mediocrity". I do like to wing it from time to time as it forces me to think and work things out in my head. Otherwise, I'm more of a robotic autonotom just following the sheet music.

 

[mrcbass]

Does anyone actually play Grateful Dead covers these days? Our band plays stuff suited mostly for a 40-and-up age group and I seriously doubt that if they heard a Dead cover they'd know what it was or even care.

Yeah, we begrudingly have one in our list Alabama Getaway. One of our guitarists is a dead head and this is just for him. I put a boogie bassline on it so it's got a different bounce than the GD version. Goes over OK.

 

[mrcbass]

I was approached by a blues band once who asked if I'd be interested in filling in when their bass player was otherwise engaged. I asked for a song list and was told "don't you know all the blues shuffles?" They thought I was an amateur for even asking. I passed.

I did do a gig once with my fathers band completely cold. I had a song list with the key for each (50's and 60's pop and jazz standards). Anytime my walking bass lines became busy the sax player would stop playing - thinking I was taking a solo. It was nerve wracking. I like to be prepared.

I landed a mostly blues gig through a Facebook request for bassist. My guys were much more supportive by providing a play list. While a lot of blues uses the same three or four patterns, not all blues are created equal. And this was for a no rehearsal gig not a jam, so would not have accepted the gig without the list. I got asked back for the next gig because I was able to at least get familiar with unknown tunes.

 

[awakefie]

Play what you want, when you want, and call it jazz.

 

[Deenah]

kinda sounds like those guys are ok with playing mediocre. Or they don't even know how the bass part even goes,so they have no idea if your playing it wrong. Either way, if you don't know the songs then you need to learn them well..In your sleep,in the shower,driving down the road. 20-30 songs is not that many for a gigging musician to know. our band had a list of 40 that were mixed in. 9 made the set.. practice practice practice
You should talk to them though,cus you guys should be tight with every song,and be going through all of them in rehearsals.
believe me, the audience can tell,and it can get embarrassing to cover for the one that constantly screws up.

 

[lermgalieu]

You beat me to it. The Dead, the Stones, even Zeppelin among many many others. Samba, Bossa Nova, smooth jazz. Not all music is structured tightly.

I dunno, I wouldn't be so quick to say this music doesn't have tight structure. The Dead, for example, had set song structures, with areas for improvisation. There are motifs and lines that repeated as well. IMO, if someone who had never heard Brown Eyed Women (random example) tried to play bass for it on the spot, it would be missing all the rhythmic hooks that make it such a great improvisational springboard.