Too Much Winging & Not Enough Structure?

[telebassman]

I've been playing with a drummer and guitar player once a week for the last 4 weeks. These guys have played together in a couple of different groups and they blaze through 20-25 songs each week. 15 or 20 of them are originals. I really like the original songs and enjoy the cover choices as well as the musicians. I'm usually comfortable and prepared for about 30% (7-8 songs) because we discussed them the week before but the rest are just a complete toss-up. The next week we might randomly repeat 10-12 from the previous week and then 10-13 are a toss-up again so then I only am prepared for like 15%. It is frustrating because I like to be prepared so when I try and nail them down on next week's list they both say "what you played tonight sounded fine, we don't wanna play the covers exactly like the original versions and the originals sound fine just keep winging it" but I wanna button things down a little.

For example, last week they tore into Joe Jackson's Sunday Paper. I love the song but I couldn't remember exactly how the entire bass part went from memory but I did remember enough to know that the bass part certainly matters in that song. I winged it and they were happy but when I went home and sat down with it I was embarrassed by what I had played at rehearsal and learned it correctly knowing that this week we might not play it again.

They know a ton of songs and I get that they don't want to be too regimented and predictable but I want to be predictable enough to sound good. Somehow they got the impression that I am trying to learn every single thing note for note but I just want to be in the ballpark of how each song goes and develop solid parts. I'm the new guy so I don't wanna come in and take control over the rehearsals but I only have a certain amount of time at home to prep. Anyone ever been in this situation? Any advice?

 

[pcake]

listen to all the songs on their playlist in the car and at home so you can at least get the changes right, learn a couple songs each week.

 

[Slater]

Anyone ever been in this situation? Any advice?

I was in a similar situation, but during gigs (not rehearsal ). It was very frustrating for a while. I did pretty much what you’re doing now. Fake my way through it, then go home and play catch-up and review the “new songs” that they threw at me. In the long run, I became a much better player.

Just be honest and tell these guys that it’s not very fun to have too much new (to you) stuff thrown at you in one rehearsal, and maybe ask for a list of songs that are a priority for them. I think they might be doing this because they like your playing and they think you can handle it.

 

[Killing Floor]

Do what @pcake said. Listen through before you touch your bass. You can probably find all the tabs you need but y'all know internet tabs aren't exactly right all the time anyway. So listen, listen, then play.

 

[pcake]

i used to play at a lot of jams, and i got pretty good at winging it. it can be a lot of fun!

 

[DirtDog]

What's the goal for playing with these guys? Because it doesn't sound like a tight gigging band is going to be realistic.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I've been playing with a drummer and guitar player once a week for the last 4 weeks. These guys have played together in a couple of different groups and they blaze through 20-25 songs each week. 15 or 20 of them are originals. I really like the original songs and enjoy the cover choices as well as the musicians. I'm usually comfortable and prepared for about 30% (7-8 songs) because we discussed them the week before but the rest are just a complete toss-up. The next week we might randomly repeat 10-12 from the previous week and then 10-13 are a toss-up again so then I only am prepared for like 15%. It is frustrating because I like to be prepared so when I try and nail them down on next week's list they both say "what you played tonight sounded fine, we don't wanna play the covers exactly like the original versions and the originals sound fine just keep winging it" but I wanna button things down a little.

For example, last week they tore into Joe Jackson's Sunday Paper. I love the song but I couldn't remember exactly how the entire bass part went from memory but I did remember enough to know that the bass part certainly matters in that song. I winged it and they were happy but when I went home and sat down with it I was embarrassed by what I had played at rehearsal and learned it correctly knowing that this week we might not play it again.

They know a ton of songs and I get that they don't want to be too regimented and predictable but I want to be predictable enough to sound good. Somehow they got the impression that I am trying to learn every single thing note for note but I just want to be in the ballpark of how each song goes and develop solid parts. I'm the new guy so I don't wanna come in and take control over the rehearsals but I only have a certain amount of time at home to prep. Anyone ever been in this situation? Any advice?

I tried out for a band one time and it went much like this. They didn't give me any material to work off of before we played, and i felt like i was hanging on their coattails the whole time since i didn't know the songs or their custom arrangements. There were no charts or anything, just me trying to listen, play a workable part, and understand the changes. It became such a mountain to climb, and i was already playing gigs with other people, so i bowed out after the first rehearsal.

Not saying you should do the same, but it depends on how much you need the experience and if you have the time to deal with it. If you are motivated to make it work, maybe ask them for a list of the songs they like to play so you can learn them somewhat ahead of time. Another idea is to start recording your rehearsals on your phone, so you can revisit the tunes later at home. If you do that for a few rehearsals, you might capture 90% of what they tend to play and then know what to work on.

 

[Jrussblues]

I’ve played in bands like this and gigging was always a disaster to me. However, it forced me to learn more which was invaluable.
I had to learn common chord changes, scales I didn’t think if use, and stretched me to learn music I wasn’t comfortable with.
On top of that, these uncomfortable gigs forced me to learn to play with the musicians and follow changes I may not have expected in front of a live audience.
It can be nerve racking but it can also be exhilarating. Especially if there is an audience involved.
Side note, I once played a full 2 hour country gig (having never played country before) in front of an audience, with music I was vaguely familiar with and only someone calling out chord changes. It was frightening but really rewarding at the same time.

 

[Zooberwerx]

"Winging it" can swing either way. If you're really good, you can quickly adapt when thrust into a foreign situation and things will, for the most part, click and stay tight for the duration of the evening. Unfortunately, bravado is a poor substitute for a critical ear and the resulting performance teeters on the threshold of rank amateur.

Riis

 

[Zoffy]

I can usually play something passable in a song I'm not familiar with, but I tend not to play "note for note" anyways - unless the song has a really identifiable bass line or a "hook" that is expected. Lots of times, when my band members add a new song they will just say to me, "Just play whatever you play," which is their way of saying that they trust that I will play appropriately for the song. I grew up playing a lot of improvisational jams and, as long as I know the key (or can see one of the guitar player's fretting hands), I can push through a new song fairly well before going home and doing a deep-dive into the song a little better.

 

[obimark]

To me, bass should drive the songs, not the other way around. Having to stumble around watching a guitar player gets old fast. No thanks.
My guess is these guys may not even listen to what you are playing...

 

[J Gold]

No band that wings everything is gonna get hired in the same place twice . The audience wants familiarity and consistency.

 

[Engle]

Been there. Multiple times. Lived to tell about it!
I once had a bandleader call I Feel Good at a gig. I love the tune but I had never played it. Faked it. Caught the shots with the drummer, but wrong notes...
The audience was having a great time!
When I went home, I realized how much I hacked it.

I have thrown myself into so many “wingin it” situations, I just roll with it now and watch the guitarist and the drummer. The more you do it, the easier it gets. It can be thrilling when you pull it off! And it helps if you know how the songs go.

I would much rather be prepared and if I’m driving, there’s a set list.

 

[bolophonic]

Are the other guys tight together? I mean, if they are tight, then I would look at it as a positive that they are relaxed enough to be confident that you will eventually catch up with their set list.

If they are loose and sloppy to begin with, then “good enough” might be all you can expect.

 

[Matty Koff]

Either you stick with it, and get better at imrpov, or move on and find some folks who like to do things note for note and provide the set/songlist + charts and material to ensure all members can do so.

 

[bumperbass]

I was in a band like you describe. 3 piece.
Those guys had been together for years before I came on the scene. Their priority was 'number of songs we know' which was in the high hundreds. So, I'd get the typical question "hey do you know this song", which was usually a song I'd heard 1000 times but never played.
It was a hoot in the beginning because I ended up knowing my 'wing it' part as well as their learned version.
However, over the course of 4 years with these guys, nothing was ever really correct. I learned to live with it. They booked a lot. I quit when I paid off my new SUV. I just couldn't take the looseness anymore, TBH.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I've been playing with a drummer and guitar player once a week for the last 4 weeks. These guys have played together in a couple of different groups and they blaze through 20-25 songs each week. 15 or 20 of them are originals. I really like the original songs and enjoy the cover choices as well as the musicians. I'm usually comfortable and prepared for about 30% (7-8 songs) because we discussed them the week before but the rest are just a complete toss-up. The next week we might randomly repeat 10-12 from the previous week and then 10-13 are a toss-up again so then I only am prepared for like 15%. It is frustrating because I like to be prepared so when I try and nail them down on next week's list they both say "what you played tonight sounded fine, we don't wanna play the covers exactly like the original versions and the originals sound fine just keep winging it" but I wanna button things down a little.

For example, last week they tore into Joe Jackson's Sunday Paper. I love the song but I couldn't remember exactly how the entire bass part went from memory but I did remember enough to know that the bass part certainly matters in that song. I winged it and they were happy but when I went home and sat down with it I was embarrassed by what I had played at rehearsal and learned it correctly knowing that this week we might not play it again.

They know a ton of songs and I get that they don't want to be too regimented and predictable but I want to be predictable enough to sound good. Somehow they got the impression that I am trying to learn every single thing note for note but I just want to be in the ballpark of how each song goes and develop solid parts. I'm the new guy so I don't wanna come in and take control over the rehearsals but I only have a certain amount of time at home to prep. Anyone ever been in this situation? Any advice?

I don’t mind winging it if it’s an original song. But for covers I like to be a little more prepared. I actually remember a specific situation onstage where a cover was called was like what the hell. It was Pardon me by incubus. Pretty simple song structure wise. I remembered some basic stuff like the verse being c#,a,c#,a,e but I hadn’t listened to the song in a few years and totally forgot the groove. People seemed to enjoy it but i wasn’t very happy about it.

I would ask them to give you a master list of songs. Slowly work on learning them all. Update it when new songs are added. Eventually it won’t be an issue

 

[4dog]

see if your winging it..then they can ....that simple.

 

[4dog]

forgot my commas after see,,,

 

[Pings Bass]

Record rehearsals, that's saved my bacon. Learn all the material at home, so you are solid and can provide structure to the band. It's literally your job as a bassist. Pcake is right, you can learn a couple a week at home if you've got recordings.