Touring artists without a bass player

[CWAnderson]

I have had the opportunity to attend quite a few "country" shows recently that do not include a bass player. These shows are bass heavy with backing tracks, usually an acoustic guitar, drummer and at least one electric player. Why cut the bass player? Do we take up to much space? Do we cost to much? Are there not enough bass players willing to tour with these acts? Or, maybe we just point out the obvious excessively. AKA Mansplaining...

It's frustrating to watch the karaoke show and feel like nobody either notices or cares.

 

[sleddogn]

I bet they read here regularly and said, no way..

 

[turf3]

Well, "modern country" (= pop-rock with hats) isn't really my thing but what I've seen is:

1) The acoustic hangs around the front person's neck as a prop.

2) Drummer and electric guitar cover the rock and roll aspect.

3) The rest of it is backing tracks.

This is not music, it's a "processed music food product".

 

[dspellman]

I play keyboards, guitar and bass (poorly).
I'm astounded at the number of times in the last three years that I've been asked to whip out a "demo" bass line and had that accepted as the final on a recording (low-level, to be honest). In each case, that bass line has been done on one of my keyboards (mostly on a Korg Kronos).

I'm sure that backing tracks are an issue with some groups and performances, but I think it's becoming more apparent that guitar (including bass guitar) no longer drives popular music. Let that settle in for a bit.

If you're done grinding your teeth...

I have a 16-track sequencer on each of my Korgs. Truth is, I can produce a complete movie sound track on those suckers. On a more practical level, I can put together every instrumental portion of a song plus a click track and replay it via the keyboard (or, of course, a computer). In playback, I can shut down those portions that are being played by a live performer (drums, bass, etc.). That means that if we're shorthanded in rehearsal OR live, the song can come across as at least a minimal representation of what it needs to be, aside from vocals. l

Some of this comes from working pit orchestras, where a missing member happens more often the larger the orchestra is. More importantly, since timing and precision are vital for some of these productions, click tracks (at a minimum) simply happen.

In short, I'd suggest that we embrace some of the benefits of modern electronics rather than grump about it. And the second suggestion is that if we become more versatile as musicians, we'll live longer in this business.

 

[CWAnderson]

@dspellman , reasonable and appreciated thoughts from your perspective. My perspective is from that of an audience member with an appreciation for music and musicianship, regardless of the genre. I think the artists in the genre I started this thread describing have started as song writers rather than performing musicians. The industry has decided that touring is still they way to gain market share, so enabling a tour at the lowest possible cost is paramount. So, it's the same old story as yesteryear. Bass plays just plain cost more than the perceived value.

Random thoughts on sequencing. I remember my first experience with sequencing on a Mac round about 1990. You know floppy disks. My thoughts at the time were along the lines of this could replace everything! 30 years on it hasn't really gone that way, but it is a gateway for many to enter the world of music.

 

[dspellman]

@dspellman , reasonable and appreciated thoughts from your perspective. My perspective is from that of an audience member with an appreciation for music and musicianship, regardless of the genre. I think the artists in the genre I started this thread describing have started as song writers rather than performing musicians. The industry has decided that touring is still they way to gain market share, so enabling a tour at the lowest possible cost is paramount. So, it's the same old story as yesteryear. Bass plays just plain cost more than the perceived value.

Random thoughts on sequencing. I remember my first experience with sequencing on a Mac round about 1990. You know floppy disks. My thoughts at the time were along the lines of this could replace everything! 30 years on it hasn't really gone that way, but it is a gateway for many to enter the world of music.

The music biz has definitely changed over the years. Songwriters were songwriters and mostly looked for performers to popularize their songs so that they could sell sheet music and gain royalties. At some point late last century, it became a requirement that songwriters be performers, and success at one depended on the other. And now the additional requirement is that you look good on video. At one point live performance existed to promote the recording. These days the recording/video supports the live performance and the latter is the primary payoff. Actually, that's not necessarily true -- the combination of those things supports your "brand," and your brand is what you sell. Dua Lipa writes her material and is then expected to sing it. Then the videos with the dancers and all that happen and she's expected to recreate that on stage. Very few performers can dance strenuously on stage and still sing at a recording level. Cher and Gloria Estefan were remarkable at it. Jennifer Lopez. In order to cut down on the wheezing and puffing for the rest, playback became de rigueur. "She sounds just like the record." Dua Lipa will make more money off her brand this coming year (makeup deals, Youtube hits, clothing endorsements) than she will actually shouting into a microphone.

It's not a case of doing the tour as cheaply as possible. Necessarily. Though that's definitely a factor. Truth is, the makeup artist and wardrobe people and maybe the personal trainer are more important than a bass player.

I know what you mean about "seeing the future" in a lowly Mac back when. The truth is, it HAS gone that way, but a lot of folks are pretending it hasn't. Beginning with DJs replacing live bands at your local friendly wedding and wending right through to playback at your local friendly concert, the concept of a live band at a whole lot of levels is becoming more of a visual effect.

 

[Fernando Costa]

It's just a few more cases of the low level of audience demand, and that goes for any musical style, or any art... and entertainment. Our choice, as composers, songwriters, musicians, etc., is to educate the audience, or to continue to speak only what they want to hear.

 

[E2942]

People pay good money to go to shows with one guy & his laptop now.

 

[db59]

Losers

 

[Killing Floor]

Music is not defined as having a live bass player. I’d rather see Big Taie or Quin NFN or even Gunna or SPEAK than Winger or Aerosmith any day.

 

[OptimalOptimus]

The music biz has definitely changed over the years. Songwriters were songwriters and mostly looked for performers to popularize their songs so that they could sell sheet music and gain royalties. At some point late last century, it became a requirement that songwriters be performers, and success at one depended on the other. And now the additional requirement is that you look good on video. At one point live performance existed to promote the recording. These days the recording/video supports the live performance and the latter is the primary payoff. Actually, that's not necessarily true -- the combination of those things supports your "brand," and your brand is what you sell. Dua Lipa writes her material and is then expected to sing it. Then the videos with the dancers and all that happen and she's expected to recreate that on stage. Very few performers can dance strenuously on stage and still sing at a recording level. Cher and Gloria Estefan were remarkable at it. Jennifer Lopez. In order to cut down on the wheezing and puffing for the rest, playback became de rigueur. "She sounds just like the record." Dua Lipa will make more money off her brand this coming year (makeup deals, Youtube hits, clothing endorsements) than she will actually shouting into a microphone.

It's not a case of doing the tour as cheaply as possible. Necessarily. Though that's definitely a factor. Truth is, the makeup artist and wardrobe people and maybe the personal trainer are more important than a bass player.

I know what you mean about "seeing the future" in a lowly Mac back when. The truth is, it HAS gone that way, but a lot of folks are pretending it hasn't. Beginning with DJs replacing live bands at your local friendly wedding and wending right through to playback at your local friendly concert, the concept of a live band at a whole lot of levels is becoming more of a visual effect.

She isn’t alone in the writing credits …

also all the music on the album is pretty much done on s computer with a Daw … it is very surprising to hear VST sounding as good if not better than real instrument without the hassle of recording session.

 

[OptimalOptimus]

No one care if there is real instrument or not in popular music. All they want is a pretty face and a chorus they can sing.

 

[JW56789]

Processed Music Food Product.

Utterly, utterly brilliant!

I could go on an old man's rant about how this . . . . ain't like that . . . . and all the cliches. I'll simply say these are different times with a new generation and music is indeed different than what I came up with. This is as it should be. A wonderfully polite and thoughtful outlook.

Nah, screw that, most all of it really does suck. Gotta go, American Idol's coming on.

 

[Pings Bass]

Backing tracks are prevalent in all pop music these days. Synth/sequenced bass is, too. These acts touring with minimalist lineups are just being more honest about it.

From the thread title I was thinking of acts without backing tracks who also don't have bass players. Stevie Winwood covers the bass on the organ pedals, for better or worse. Zia McCabe straps on a bass guitar for a couple numbers in a Dandy Warhols show, but mostly covers the low end on keys, like the Doors when they weren't hiring guys like Leroy Vinegar to fill the low end void. In omitting the bass, the Black Keys do what many rock bands could do, since it's really all about guitar and drums for a lot of rock.

In all of these examples, I find something lacking compositionally. They can obviously fill the aural space known as "bass" and move air, but it strikes me as musically retrograde to me to eliminate the bass line as a musical element.

 

[Killing Floor]

I bet they read here regularly and said, no way..

I bet they stand behind the drummer's shoulder and don't make eye contact with the audience and opt out of singing backup vocals and wear business casual clothes and read this and say "no way". Out of sight, out of mind. I've played a very long time and I've never heard a guitarist or singer say "I just want to play my part and stay out of the spotlight". If they're not part of the act they're not part of the act.

 

[BazzaBass]

I play keyboards, guitar and bass (poorly).
I'm astounded at the number of times in the last three years that I've been asked to whip out a "demo" bass line and had that accepted as the final on a recording (low-level, to be honest). In each case, that bass line has been done on one of my keyboards (mostly on a Korg Kronos).

I'm sure that backing tracks are an issue with some groups and performances, but I think it's becoming more apparent that guitar (including bass guitar) no longer drives popular music. Let that settle in for a bit.

If you're done grinding your teeth...

I have a 16-track sequencer on each of my Korgs. Truth is, I can produce a complete movie sound track on those suckers. On a more practical level, I can put together every instrumental portion of a song plus a click track and replay it via the keyboard (or, of course, a computer). In playback, I can shut down those portions that are being played by a live performer (drums, bass, etc.). That means that if we're shorthanded in rehearsal OR live, the song can come across as at least a minimal representation of what it needs to be, aside from vocals. l

Some of this comes from working pit orchestras, where a missing member happens more often the larger the orchestra is. More importantly, since timing and precision are vital for some of these productions, click tracks (at a minimum) simply happen.

In short, I'd suggest that we embrace some of the benefits of modern electronics rather than grump about it. And the second suggestion is that if we become more versatile as musicians, we'll live longer in this business.

I want to see great musicians not mediocre technicians

 

[carsbybigd]

Most audiences just want to hear "Their" favorite song " played ". I saw Alan Jackson years ago , and he was awful , but the 2 girls I was with , loved it, because he " played " their favorite song . Didnt matter if the vocals were off , just as long as " their " song was played .

 

[GreyBeard]

A couple of yrs ago I did a gig as warmup for a oldies group, I won't post their name but the had a couple of top 40 hits. They had backing tracks for the bass, the guitar, and some of the vocals. All they had was a KB drums horns and 4 vocals. One of the songs they did, didn't even have a lead vocal? It was on a backing track.

When I remember what live music was like back in the 60-70's, we would have never put up with this sort of thing. We actually listened too and connected with the music the band was playing. I think I'm ready to switch to blue grass or something where people actually care about what you are playing.

 

[Samatza]

I know what you mean about "seeing the future" in a lowly Mac back when. The truth is, it HAS gone that way, but a lot of folks are pretending it hasn't. Beginning with DJs replacing live bands at your local friendly wedding and wending right through to playback at your local friendly concert, the concept of a live band at a whole lot of levels is becoming more of a visual effect.

Yes indeed, we used to do weddings almost weekly, now it's all DJs and maybe a solo performer with a backing track.

Live bands, especially ones with many members are harder to slot into gigs these days. I've seen it locally, most of the guys I've known for decades have become, solo, 2 & 3 piece acts and reminisce about the glory days of having 5+ members and doing some great gigs.

I saw a gig recently where the star attraction hired the band just to mime to the backing tracks, that's pretty sad considering these guys could actually play that stuff live and sound better than the backing track.

It may be that the best days are behind us or that the landscape will change again and bands will become the in thing, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[LBS-bass]

It may be that the best days are behind us

I'm pretty sure that's true. If you're old enough, it's been a slow but steady decline. I'm grateful that I had some good opportunities early on, but this is really about economics.

The more people you put on a stage, the more money you have to pay out, and the more opportunities you have for things to go wrong in all sorts of ways. We see it all the time here with bands fighting about this or that, someone not doing their work, etc. etc.

Backing tracks don't have to practice, rehearse, or get paid. They don't take up stage space. They don't fight with each other. They don't need to be fed, housed, paid, or handled. They don't pout or get into a snit when there are technical problems. They don't threaten to quit over perceived slights. They don't make the soundman's job hard by turning up after sound check.

There are a gazillion practical reasons to use backing tracks, and precious few good reasons to keep putting live bodies on stages. Look around this forum. We are not making this decision anything but easier. This is how it's going to go.