Double Bass Troll Ribbon Mic

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Can Troll owners comment on how much (if any?) resonance is lost by suspending the mic under the bridge with elastic bands? I tried mounting several mics off the tailpiece or suspended below the afterlengths and every configuration dampened resonance. Too much for me. I even tried a Nadine mic and experienced the same issue. Wondering how Troll compares on this issue.... Thank you!

 

[Scott Lynch]

Can Troll owners comment on how much (if any?) resonance is lost by suspending the mic under the bridge with elastic bands? I tried mounting several mics off the tailpiece or suspended below the afterlengths and every configuration dampened resonance. Too much for me. I even tried a Nadine mic and experienced the same issue. Wondering how Troll compares on this issue.... Thank you!

There is going to be some dampening when weight is added to the bridge. I used the Troll only for amplified pizz gigs and to be honest I did not notice much of a difference in that context. Others may have differing experiences.

 

[shwashwa]

H clamp can probably get you to the same spot

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

H clamp can probably get you to the same spot

Thanks, trying to avoid that. If I had an H-clamp, I'd just use one of my Telefunken M60 small diaphragm condensers. The Troll seems like a simple solution, but perhaps with the cost of damping resonance.

 

[shwashwa]

I can't remember if an h clamp is expensive or not since I bought it like 10 years ago but it's definitely worth it. will come in handy if you go in the studio also. Don't have to worry about moving, at least on that Mic . I'd say it definitely does not dampen the bass

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Can Troll owners comment on how much (if any?) resonance is lost by suspending the mic under the bridge with elastic bands? I tried mounting several mics off the tailpiece or suspended below the afterlengths and every configuration dampened resonance. Too much for me. I even tried a Nadine mic and experienced the same issue. Wondering how Troll compares on this issue.... Thank you!

None that I noticed. I think because it's not actually clamped to anything is doesn't really affect the bass's ability to resonate. I can't see how the weight, in and of itself would make any difference in this scenario. The only reason I have ever used it on a stand was for a better recording position. I think the H Clamp would be more likely to dampen the bass IMHO.
-J

 

[Kentos]

I recently switched to Troll ribbon mic from DPA and it has been so amazing. I use it both for recording and live. You really don't get feedback and I can get what I want for microphone.

I just recorded few clips with Troll in Jazz combo.I hope it helps for someone considering buying a Microphone.

Cherokee


Driftin


Bass solo on Cherokee

 

[Ric Vice]

Kento,
Very nice playing, good bass lines, fluid solo passages. The Troll in this context sounds very good, as Andy Curry says, they are about as good as it gets.
kudos. Your tenor player has so much style and command of his axe. Stellar comping by the Guitarist, great time and feel from the drums.

 

[Francois Blais]

Great stuff guys, bravo!

 

[ablumley]

Hello all,

My Troll mic has been seeing a lot more use as a recording mic than for live amplification over the last years. While it sounds great paired up with the regular fethead, it invariably gets run through a high pass filter during the mixing stage to deal with the mic's proximity effects. While I don't mind doing this, sometimes I wish I had a quick and dirty solution to eliminate some of the proximity problems before the signal hits the recording device.

The Fethead Filter (fixed hpf) seems like a good potential solution to this, with the option to even order a customized frequency roll-off point.

Before I give it a try, has anyone else out there had experiences pairing up the Troll with a Fethead Filter for recording? If so, how did the fethead filter work for taming proximity effect and did you regret being stuck with a fixed hpf ?

Thanks for any input!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Not sure what interface you are using, but I've found that engaging the HPF on two of my interfaces, one a Presonus and the other an Audient, gives me a lot more clean signal and doesn't seem to lose much of anything valuable. Knowing this, a built in HPF will be a required feature on any future interface purchases I might ever make.

EDIT: Here's a clip with the Audient with HPF engaged and no further EQ: Link Removed

 

[shwashwa]

How about a mic preamp with an adjustable high-pass filter? Or, not sure what daw you are using but why not just keep a high-pass filter strapped to the bass channel? Not necessarily during the mixing phase but put it on there while you're recording. it will still be recorded with all the low frequency information but every time you push play you won't hear it if the high pass filter is just always on that channel for playback.

 

[AGCurry]

Kento,
... The Troll in this context sounds very good, as Andy Curry says, they are about as good as it gets...

Ric, I don't think I made such a statement... I am a ribbon-mic aficionado, and I did try the Troll but wasn't very impressed.

 

[ablumley]

Thank you gentlemen for the sage observations and suggestions.

I'm working with a pretty basic bare-bones setup at home right now, recording directly to a Zoom H6.
But you've reminded me that even the lowly Zoom recorder has a variable built in high pass filter. I just completely forgot about it.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

When I recorded with the Troll, I usually used it on a stand a few inches farther away and the proximity effect was less of an issue. I typically only used the FEThead for live performance.

 

[ablumley]

When I recorded with the Troll, I usually used it on a stand a few inches farther away and the proximity effect was less of an issue. I typically only used the FEThead for live performance.

The proximity effect is definitely reduced with the Troll on a stand and this has also worked for me in situations where there's some isolation. Lately though I'm trying to record acoustic jazz sessions in an untreated room with drums and maybe horns, piano or guitar. In this case it helps to get the mic as close as possible to the top of the bass. I'll have to experiment some more with running the Troll straight into the Zoom H6. The unit's preamps get pretty noisy at high gain. I tried it briefly but found that adding the fethead and barely opening the gain on the recorder made for a cleaner signal with a lower noise floor...

 

[garrett2]

Ric, I don't think I made such a statement... I am a ribbon-mic aficionado, and I did try the Troll but wasn't very impressed.

What sort of set up do you use for recording arco? I want to go beyond my Iphone!

 

[AGCurry]

What sort of set up do you use for recording arco? I want to go beyond my Iphone!

I (like almost everyone else) use a DAW with a USB interface. I put a microphone on a stand, try to find a good position for it, and start recording. Finding a good position IMO is more important than the hardware we use. I start by deciding where I want the listener to sit and putting the mic right there.

I'm not a good-enough bassist to be recording myself solo for any purpose other than self-critique, so when I record myself it's usually with others or to be mixed with others. In those situations, I don't obsess too much about the sound of the recording ... I'm just trying to play my best. If the playback reveals a sound I don't like, I'll try changing mics and/or changing the geometry of the bass and the mic. Sometimes I'll use EQ to "fix it in the mix" if I think it's warranted.

If I'm recording a really good bassist - arco or pizz, doesn't matter - I'll break out one of my AEA ribbon mics. Here's where the geometry of positioning is crucial. Because those mics are bidirectional, the space matters, so I'm faced with deciding how much sound I want in the far side of the mic, and how much distance I want for the reflected sound. I may take everything to a different room in search of a better result.

Finally: I wouldn't use one for a professional recording, but smart phones nowadays make pretty decent recordings!

 

[jazzwalk]

The single thing I came to realize with the Troll is, the higher the input impedance it's connected into whichever preamp system you're using (sans phantom power!), the more efficiently the Troll (passive ribbon) mic will respond. Yes, the higher the input impedance, the better; it seems counter-intuitive, yes, but true. There's plenty of corroborative documentation on the internet to read about input impedance; pls don't just take my word for it.
Anyway, I've had my Troll for a few years now, used with a Raven Labs PMB blending preamp, but it also works just fine with a D-TAR Solstice preamp blender; two items no longer produced, unfortunately. The additional input is produced with a Fishman BP-100, the piezos of which are sandwiched between pieces of a paint stirring stick free from Lowes or Home Depot, and squeezed into the bridge slots. Now, the Troll trick using the RL PMB preamp blender is this: since the input impedance on its "mic" input is 820K Ohms, and the other input is 10Meg Ohms, the Troll gets the other input, and the piezo pickup is connected to the "mic" input. By relatively adjusting the input volumes besides the bass. mid, and treble equalization for each, I can better dial in the desired timbre in any given playing environment, especially given that arco play is about half what normally is done. Finally, the Troll's input volume is typically ~12 o'clock, while the piezos' volume is usually ~8.

 

[Hasty]

While I know it's not a Troll... I modified a Bumblebee RM-5 ribbon mic by lopping off about 50mm from the end and re-fitting the XLR connection to it. I had reached out on the website a few weeks ago about buying a Troll, but never got a response and the website doesn't seem to be active from a commercial perspective... so I started looking at alternatives. I've been looking at the Bumblebee for a while and thought I'd try it out. Found a windscreen on Amazon that fits nicely and built a small case from the scrap bin in the shop.

Just finished up a quintet gig with a vocalists and I was super impressed. I was concerned about feedback and bleedover from the drums, but it was actually one of the most pleasant tones I've ever had from an amplification perspective. Instrumentation was drums, bass, piano and sax and it fit into the mix wonderfully.

Another wonderful tool in the toolbox on my eternal tone quest. It's funny that I never have a desire to chase tone with the electric bass, but I do seem to chase tone with the double bass. Probably the piezo. All I know is that ribbon mic sounds wonderful and captures the full range nicely.