True stereo bass amplifier

[Tosh]

If you have something like an SY1000, then you might be able to benefit from a True Stereo rig.

I have a pair of Yamaha powered PA speakers (originally purchased for keyboard amps) that I can hook up to the L/R main outputs from the SY1000 (placed about 20' apart). I also run the mag output of my bass into a conventional bass amp/cab rig. This could be considered a 1.6 kW stereo 2.1 setup, but it's only stereo because of the output of the SY1000 processor.

I would not take this rig to a gig without hiring a roadie. However, it sounds great in my backyard.

 

[Wasnex]

am i the only one who thinks two separate bass rigs is the only answer?

No, it's not the only option.

Midas XL42 preamp into a stereo power amp. Not cheap or small/light by modern standards.

The XL42 is essentially the channel strip from a Midas XL4. I have read of some engineers travel with an XL42 to be used for "the money channel" when they are supporting a diva.

The XL42 is essentially a 2-channel mixer. Each channel has input gain, output gain, tone controls, and a pan control. You can stack/link multiple XL42s if you need more channels.

The inputs on the XL42 are XLR only. You can use a line matching transformer like a Shure A95U to convert from instrument level unbalanced to mic level balanced.

I am not saying this is a good idea for most people, but I would be happy to use this rig. Actually I toured a stereo rig using an Ashley MX508 rack mixer for several years. I used Shure A95U line matching transformers. I used a mixer because I switched between three instruments. Sometimes I reconfigure my bass rig as a small PA by adding mics, a couple of powered mains, and Galaxy Audio HotSpots for monitors.

A less expensive option would be a small analog mixer with High-Z, instrument level inputs pushing a stereo power amp. For example a Mackie 802VLZ4 should work fine.

 

[Analogeezer]

Well has been pointed out to the OP, the pedal he is talking about does not put out a stereo output.

A lot of the other discussion about "stereo rigs", what is really being referred to here is "dual mono".

You are taking two pickups or two preamps for different sounds and running them into different rigs to get a different sound which is then blended together by the cabinets.

So this kind of setup is not to generate a "stereo field", it's to have two different signal chains to obtain what is essentially a mono sound.

If the OP wants to send a dry output to one setup and the effected output to another setup then he needs a dual mono setup which can be achieved in a number of ways, all of the already mentioned.

I will bring up my regular suggestion for the Sansamp RBI, sound great, cheap new, even cheaper used and widely available. Does the clean sound thing just fine if you want that, or add the Sansamp bit as needed.

Two RBI's and a used power amp, and a rack should set the OP back less than a grand and get what he is actually looking for.

Analogeezer

 

[Sid Fang]

Cool, I never knew that EBS preamp was true stereo. I was thinking of buying one back in the late '90s, but ended up with two Alembic F-1X preamps, instead.

Well, that old EBS is wonderfully oddball, in several ways. One of them is that that it's stereo from the effects loop onward - clearly designed to have stereo effects in the loop - but only has a mono input.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Well, that old EBS is wonderfully oddball, in several ways. One of them is that that it's stereo from the effects loop onward - clearly designed to have stereo effects in the loop - but only has a mono input.

That is a fairly common thing among bass amps (SVT4Pro, anyone?). EBS is a very cool, and excellent manufacturer; it would have been interesting for them to have made a true stereo bass preamp. My WW amp was the opposite, with two independent and identical preamps but only one power amp, whereas the stereo version has two power amps.

These days, my only use of stereo is running my Strymon Flint into a stereo DI (Radial ProD2) into my recorder.

 

[agedhorse]

I don't use one but you could.

How do you drive the power amp directly from your bass? No preamp, no pedal preamp?

 

[TOOL460002]

How do you drive the power amp directly from your bass? No preamp, no pedal preamp?

DBX 160a is the only thing besides a power amp. I do use a pedal board and blend parallel loops (custom thing with available gain on all channels, so with an active bass I probably have a fairly hot signal in that configuration if that makes a difference). But I've played directly into power amps before (specifically an old Stewart PA-1000 I still have). So... now that you mention it, would there be a problem removing the rack compressor? I can just click to bypass it. Not sure if that does anything to the equation.

 

[CryingBass]

If money is no object, and Roland makes a 2x12 keyboards combo KC-990. 320W. Beefy.

Each cab is stereo by itself. But the cool thing is you can link 2 of them into a "true stereo" pair.
Tons of features, like several inputs, etc. But this does not address splitting a bass output into stereo.

I hear they sound pretty awesome, but I have never tried it. And not cheap. Anyone tried these on Bass?

https://www.roland.com/us/products/kc-990/

 

[agedhorse]

DBX 160a is the only thing besides a power amp. I do use a pedal board and blend parallel loops (custom thing with available gain on all channels, so with an active bass I probably have a fairly hot signal in that configuration if that makes a difference). But I've played directly into power amps before (specifically an old Stewart PA-1000 I still have). So... now that you mention it, would there be a problem removing the rack compressor? I can just click to bypass it. Not sure if that does anything to the equation.

Ok, so you do use preamps then.

It depends on how much gain the 160 is adding. I believe there is as much as 20dB of make-up gain AND IIRC there's the ability to do level shifting if it has the -10 or -20/+4 switches on the back.

 

[40Hz]

If you’re using effects and want definition and clarity, you might be better off looking at a wet/dry or wet/dry/wet setup rather than a stereo one. Just my 2¢.

I’ve done stereo and biamped setups with prog bands over the years. And neither stereo nor biamping are all they’re cracked up to be when it comes to bass.

 

[Wasnex]

... neither stereo nor biamping are all they’re cracked up to be when it comes to bass.

IMHO both can be done well, but it's not necessarily cheap or easy .

 

[40Hz]

IMHO both can be done well, but it's not necessarily cheap or easy .

I found most times that with a bass that the stereo channels just blend together at stage volume levels. Even with the QSC power amp and BagEnd cabs I was using at the time. Guitar in stereo is a different story. But that’s guitar, not bass.

Just out of curiosity, is anybody still biamping that much these days? It was considered quite the thing back during the golden age of rack rigs. I had one of those. And I biamped for awhile. But I felt it kinda became moot once the more full range hifi type bass cabs came out. (My SWR head will let you biamp if you want to.) There’s a slight difference I can hear when biamping. But not (IMO) really worth it these days if you have good cabs. And again, at stage volumes it probably would be inaudible.

Besides, today’s FOH systems have been steadily reducing the need for big backline rigs anyway. If you need stereo or biamping it’s probably easier to just let the FOH board handle it.

But that’s my feeling and ears. Others may feel and hear it differently.

 

[A Bass And Its Boy]

I found most times that with a bass that the stereo channels just blend together at stage volume levels.

That might be true as far as having separate cabs on opposite sides of the stage, but that doesn't mean that biamping a dual-mono bass is without value--else you could make the exact same argument about the superfluity of using individual volume/tone knobs on basses with multiple pickups because they just blend together before they hit your guitar cable.

IME, using two different preamps and two different effects chains for mags and piezos is a way to shape the pickups beyond what the onboard controls on the bass can do by themselves--I can get even more extreme separations of tones and blend them back together at whatever levels I want, leading to even more unique final sounds. Not to mention the fact that I can simply turn off the mags and get a more woody upright tone or even a bright ABG tone off the piezos when I need it, or vice versa and just get a rock tone. I almost feel like I have three basses in one at that point, despite mixing them back together before my power amp. The separate characteristics of two different cabs might make those separate pickup voices even more distinct, despite the two cabs blending together before hitting audience members' ears.

 

[40Hz]

IME, using two different preamps and two different effects chains for mags and piezos

That’s exactly what I do at times. I’ll run a split signal into two different signal path/preamps into each side of a power amp set up for dual mono operation with each channel feeding two different cabs.

But that’s not the same thing as running in stereo where a single signal gets sent out to two different sides but is still the same signal. The above is closer to how a wet/dry setup works. And also really has nothing to do with biamping where a crossover spits a single signal path and sends one range of frequencies to one amp and a different range of frequencies gets sent to another amp or channel.

 

[Sid Fang]

If money is no object, and Roland makes a 2x12 keyboards combo KC-990. 320W. Beefy.
… Anyone tried these on Bass?

I have it’s little brother, the KC-550 kinda sorta half the KC-990. Got it as a keyboard amp’ back before I had my own PA. I slaved it off the FX output of my little EBS Drôme for a couple of rehearsals and it sounded pretty badass. Not particularly *flat* mind you, with both amps and both cabinets contributing to the complexity, but badass.

 

[Wasnex]

I found most times that with a bass that the stereo channels just blend together at stage volume levels. Even with the QSC power amp and BagEnd cabs I was using at the time. Guitar in stereo is a different story. But that’s guitar, not bass.

Just out of curiosity, is anybody still biamping that much these days? It was considered quite the thing back during the golden age of rack rigs. I had one of those. And I biamped for awhile. But I felt it kinda became moot once the more full range hifi type bass cabs came out. (My SWR head will let you biamp if you want to.) There’s a slight difference I can hear when biamping. But not (IMO) really worth it these days if you have good cabs. And again, at stage volumes it probably would be inaudible.

Besides, today’s FOH systems have been steadily reducing the need for big backline rigs anyway. If you need stereo or biamping it’s probably easier to just let the FOH board handle it.

But that’s my feeling and ears. Others may feel and hear it differently.

AFAIK GK was the last company widely using biamping (RB series amps). But their application was biamping between a woofer and tweeter with the tweeter coming in at 5khz. Usually when we discuss biamping with bass, it's between the woofer and mid driver.

Given today's gear and priorities most will consider multi-amping and biamping gratuitous/unnecessary. But a few intrepid souls still feel it's necessary to try these approaches. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.

 

[40Hz]

Given today's gear and priorities most will consider multi-amping and biamping gratuitous/unnecessary.

Biamping is pretty much a waste of effort these days. Multi-amping (if by that you mean wet/dry or wet/dry/wet) might be worth exploring if you’re heavily into using a lot of modulation effects. But outside of that, I myself can’t really see it for bass with today’s amps and cabs.

 

[CryingBass]

Ok. To sum this up: Stereo = Bi-amp = Twice the gear-acquisition potential = Classic TB

 

[abarson]

Sonic Nuance SBS will do stereo summing.
Bass —> Mel9 —> SBS —> single amp

SBS – Stereo Boost Selector

 

[Bassdrifter]

That is a fairly common thing among bass amps (SVT4Pro, anyone?). EBS is a very cool, and excellent manufacturer; it would have been interesting for them to have made a true stereo bass preamp. My WW amp was the opposite, with two independent and identical preamps but only one power amp, whereas the stereo version has two power amps.

These days, my only use of stereo is running my Strymon Flint into a stereo DI (Radial ProD2) into my recorder.

What is ment by "true stereo"? The Microbass 3 is a stereo preamp is it not? TS on FX Send and TRS on FX Return. Stereo XLR outputs. Put a chorus or reverb with stereo out in the loop, and feed two powered cabs, two power amps, a stereo power amp or a recorder and you have stereo. Can a bass preamp get more stereo than that? In that case what would be the typical use? I have this excellent little piece of kit, but to be honest, i have not tried the stereo function. I was thinking to get a QSC 12.2 to go with it, maybe i rather should get a pair.