The trouble with bands is that they're made up of musicians.
haha im gonna sig this
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Trying to get along in my band...
- Thread starter ChrisB2
- Start date
haha im gonna sig this
This ^^ ... though I prefer the 15's to the 20's. It will help your bass stand out better "in your ears" as well. The custom-molded plugs are worth every dime, IMO, and they don't stick out of your ears if appearance is an issue.
Aside from earplugs, you can get a wireless system. That way you can move around until you find a comfortable spot.
Thanks for all the responses everyone.
Let me add that the overall stage volume of the entire band is very high. I don't mind high stage volume, but this one instrument is ridiculous IMO. I can barely hear the singer or the drums or myself, and I'm using a 2800 watt power amp with an 810 SVT cab.
Yes, my guy uses that same amp. I guess I would think there is some knob or button somewhere in his chain that would lower the volume. I couldn't believe it the other night when he hit his boost for a solo. Geez. My head literally swooned.
Oh, and as I said, moving to the other side isn't an option. We're four in the front line and the other guitarist takes up the other side of the stage with all his gear and the PA.
Most times we roll our own. Yeah, I could go ampless, but with this band I've needed a hefty rig to hear myself and to keep from toasting the floor wedges. But we always have at least two 1x18 subwoofers with two 15" hightops so we can carry bass in FOH easily. It's just there's no need in smaller rooms with my rig. (Larger rooms and outdoors, yeah, the bass is in the mains.)
I remember a post where someone switched to a DI, headphone amp, and IEM, then the band complained they had no stage bass. Hahahahaha (evil laugh).
I already have the ETY earplugs, don't like what they do to my experience. I'm not sure I'll like IEM either, but it might be that or find a new band.
Yeah, that's what I like, too, and that was my argument last night. The other guitarist (who runs our sound) says, "We miked the guitars so we can keep the stage volume down." (Erm, okay, then why is so-and-so playing at 150 dB??
) My answer to him was, "Then why does it need to be so loud on stage?" and he said, "It sounds better coming out of the amps." Okay, I understand that's how you get your "tone" but then why mike the amps??? Sometimes I think I'm dealing with lunatics.
Yeah, already tried plugs, didn't work for me and I'm figuring I'll have about $400 in bass-capable IEM, molds, a mixer, and related cables etc.
Yeah, I totally agree with you. And thanks for that point, I "sorta" realized he deserves his place but maybe not as fully as I should. The band would really go down a couple-few notches without him. I'm no slouch player but I understand that without me, they would survive more easily than without him. However, star or no star, there is appropriate volume and inappropriate volume. So I'm not out of line for asking, but there is a line I shouldn't push past. The problem for them, IMO, is that they'll never keep a good bassist as long as they have this problem, unless it's someone willing to do whatever it takes to "deal with it."
But anyway, yeah, since asking nicely didn't work, I'm trying to do #2 before having to do #3...
Let me add that the overall stage volume of the entire band is very high. I don't mind high stage volume, but this one instrument is ridiculous IMO. I can barely hear the singer or the drums or myself, and I'm using a 2800 watt power amp with an 810 SVT cab.
Yes, my guy uses that same amp. I guess I would think there is some knob or button somewhere in his chain that would lower the volume. I couldn't believe it the other night when he hit his boost for a solo. Geez. My head literally swooned.
Oh, and as I said, moving to the other side isn't an option. We're four in the front line and the other guitarist takes up the other side of the stage with all his gear and the PA.
Most times we roll our own. Yeah, I could go ampless, but with this band I've needed a hefty rig to hear myself and to keep from toasting the floor wedges. But we always have at least two 1x18 subwoofers with two 15" hightops so we can carry bass in FOH easily. It's just there's no need in smaller rooms with my rig. (Larger rooms and outdoors, yeah, the bass is in the mains.)
I remember a post where someone switched to a DI, headphone amp, and IEM, then the band complained they had no stage bass. Hahahahaha (evil laugh).
I already have the ETY earplugs, don't like what they do to my experience. I'm not sure I'll like IEM either, but it might be that or find a new band.
Yeah, that's what I like, too, and that was my argument last night. The other guitarist (who runs our sound) says, "We miked the guitars so we can keep the stage volume down." (Erm, okay, then why is so-and-so playing at 150 dB??
) My answer to him was, "Then why does it need to be so loud on stage?" and he said, "It sounds better coming out of the amps." Okay, I understand that's how you get your "tone" but then why mike the amps??? Sometimes I think I'm dealing with lunatics.Yeah, already tried plugs, didn't work for me and I'm figuring I'll have about $400 in bass-capable IEM, molds, a mixer, and related cables etc.
Yeah, I totally agree with you. And thanks for that point, I "sorta" realized he deserves his place but maybe not as fully as I should. The band would really go down a couple-few notches without him. I'm no slouch player but I understand that without me, they would survive more easily than without him. However, star or no star, there is appropriate volume and inappropriate volume. So I'm not out of line for asking, but there is a line I shouldn't push past. The problem for them, IMO, is that they'll never keep a good bassist as long as they have this problem, unless it's someone willing to do whatever it takes to "deal with it."
But anyway, yeah, since asking nicely didn't work, I'm trying to do #2
before having to do #3...
Ah, my guitard gave me the same line, but he has his on two. I guess those knobs on the guitar and all those pedals have no effect on the volume, eh?
Maybe youre sensitive to certain frequencies that he just happens to push, which might explain why it seems so loud to you yet the audience doesnt complain.
Ha, I think that was me. They got some in the drummers wedge, and that was it.
Now the guitard has toned down some, I got a loud 15 combo, and thats working for now.
When anyone says anything, he ignores them or gets an attitude... makes people afraid to mention it, and I admit Im intimidated myself, as I'm also nonconfrontational.
Best part now is, were sorta becoming a house band in a place we love to play (also big outside stage when its warm out), and the owners (husband/wife) are complaining, in fact, twice this past Friday, then the husband/owner had a nice, but long talk with him after the show.
Maybe when he finds he cant have his cake and eat it too, hell employ my suggestion about putting the/an amp in front of him or on the side and on a stand so he can hear it better, and wont have to crank it so loud.
One of the bands I play in is so quiet onstage, the only thing in the monitor is vocals. The mix may change at a festival to deal with a large PA. I want to play with those guys forever.
As it should be. Im jealous... seriously jealous.
But I will have this someday, namely when I have the confidence (and balls) to take control of my band (guitard), at least in that respect.
I have no idea if this is a viable option for the OP or anyone else, but it worked for me....
The master vol. pot ships with a lin. pot- swapping this out for an audio taper pot DRASTICALLY improves the ability to adjust volume at lower settings- (as a result of the taper changing). any ways, just some info if anyone's interested. worked for me.
Reference site, plus charts if you'd like to look at em: Invalid Link Removed
The master vol. pot ships with a lin. pot- swapping this out for an audio taper pot DRASTICALLY improves the ability to adjust volume at lower settings- (as a result of the taper changing). any ways, just some info if anyone's interested. worked for me.
Reference site, plus charts if you'd like to look at em: Invalid Link Removed
I'd try the IEMs. I haven't tried them yet but I've thought about it. I'd worry about others having the ability to toast my ears though....
I'm sure the reason you can't switch with the other guitarist is the same reason you're complaining - he already knows it....
I also have the musician plugs, and they conned me into the 25db filters after I said I wanted 10 or something "everyone always comes back for the 25s" they said.... I find them OK for watching loud live shows but too strong for playing with my bands.
I think those of us that are into our tone can't accept the filtered version. Hearing my tone is part of the enjoyment.
That said, have you tried a plug in just the ear next to him? It might make all the difference.
Good Luck - sounds though like it's a good gig otherwise so just give it a shot to fix the issue.
I'm sure the reason you can't switch with the other guitarist is the same reason you're complaining - he already knows it....
I also have the musician plugs, and they conned me into the 25db filters after I said I wanted 10 or something "everyone always comes back for the 25s" they said.... I find them OK for watching loud live shows but too strong for playing with my bands.
I think those of us that are into our tone can't accept the filtered version. Hearing my tone is part of the enjoyment.
That said, have you tried a plug in just the ear next to him? It might make all the difference.
Good Luck - sounds though like it's a good gig otherwise so just give it a shot to fix the issue.
I use custom ear plugs. Cost about $160. Actually, two sets. One set (-15db) with filters that only fill the ear canal. The other set are filled (no filter) and cover the entire ear cavity.
For the ear facing the drums I use a filled one (no filter) and a -15db in the other ear so I can pick up some of the highs for better sound balance. After a bit of experimenting, this seems to work best.
Get them with a neck rope installed and hang them around your shoulders when not in use.
Works very well for me. They're comfortable and took very little getting used to.
For the ear facing the drums I use a filled one (no filter) and a -15db in the other ear so I can pick up some of the highs for better sound balance. After a bit of experimenting, this seems to work best.
Get them with a neck rope installed and hang them around your shoulders when not in use.
Works very well for me. They're comfortable and took very little getting used to.
When I read the original post I thought I'd been replaced and nobody told me! That's my guy. "I'm only on three!" I about choked. Same amp. Same problem.
First, earplugs! 30 db cheapos, buy em in the bulk pack. I've made lots of new friends and had many a beer bought for me when I handed them out at gigs. Yes, he's that loud. He's also pretty much deaf, I wonder how that happened.
Request a move to the sweet spot by the high hat, tell everyone you need to be that much tighter with the drummer. Already there? Too bad.
Once you have protected your own hearing, and the hearing of any cute girls cringing from the volume of your star child, it's time for some fun. Run the volume up on your rig until if feels really good. What else is there left to do?
After losing some good gigs because the local pro sound guy bitched about his stupid loud volume, we took that stupid loud amp away. He gets a line out from the pod 6. That's it. The sound guys love it. He gets a hot monitor, they get good FOH. We tried the power soak gizmos, he'd just unplug em. (That amp can sound amazing at low volume with the right power soak)
I still use ear plugs, every time. These guys have made some improvements in taming the stage sound, but it's still just too loud. IF things get out of hand I can warm up the GK 1001 with the fEarfuls. I've got a long way to go to redline on that rig.
First, earplugs! 30 db cheapos, buy em in the bulk pack. I've made lots of new friends and had many a beer bought for me when I handed them out at gigs. Yes, he's that loud. He's also pretty much deaf, I wonder how that happened.
Request a move to the sweet spot by the high hat, tell everyone you need to be that much tighter with the drummer. Already there? Too bad.
Once you have protected your own hearing, and the hearing of any cute girls cringing from the volume of your star child, it's time for some fun. Run the volume up on your rig until if feels really good. What else is there left to do?
After losing some good gigs because the local pro sound guy bitched about his stupid loud volume, we took that stupid loud amp away. He gets a line out from the pod 6. That's it. The sound guys love it. He gets a hot monitor, they get good FOH. We tried the power soak gizmos, he'd just unplug em. (That amp can sound amazing at low volume with the right power soak)
I still use ear plugs, every time. These guys have made some improvements in taming the stage sound, but it's still just too loud. IF things get out of hand I can warm up the GK 1001 with the fEarfuls. I've got a long way to go to redline on that rig.
One thing my guitarist did before we went IEM is cut down an old 4x12 cabinet into a 2x12 wedge and put it at stage front aiming back at him and mic it for FOH.
He's since gotten a Marshall with a master volume and went back to a regular 4x12 and gets his sound at a lower volume.
Our IEM systems are stereo and he gets his mix and a separate feed from just his amp and he's really happy with this setup he still gets his tone but at a audience-friendly volume.
He's since gotten a Marshall with a master volume and went back to a regular 4x12 and gets his sound at a lower volume.
Our IEM systems are stereo and he gets his mix and a separate feed from just his amp and he's really happy with this setup he still gets his tone but at a audience-friendly volume.
If you can't move to the other side of the drummer see if moving the loud guitar player right next to the drummer and you outside of him helps - that is assuming you're next to the drummer and the guitar player is on the outside of you.
This worked for me when I played with a super loud guitar player on my side of the drummer. What this does is that it allows you to get out of the direct line of his amp. It worked pretty well for me. The drummer wasn't very happy about it though
This worked for me when I played with a super loud guitar player on my side of the drummer. What this does is that it allows you to get out of the direct line of his amp. It worked pretty well for me. The drummer wasn't very happy about it though
Quit these jokers. They obviously have no idea how to get a good sound, which might be ok if you're in a punk or garage rock band, but if you consider yourselves a "professional" cover type band, you need to have the sound sorted out.
If this guy doesn't understand that his overbearing volume is ruining the overall sound of the WHOLE band, there's nothing you can do about it and you'll be fighting it and miserable the whole time.
Those Hot Rod Deluxe amps DO have a master volume (and gain), there's no reason why you cant play one at any volume you might want, including down to whisper quiet late night bedroom practice levels. He probably meant his gain was at 1 (or maybe he meant 1 o clock!) and his master was cranked. Well, back the master off to 1/2 to 3/4 and then the gain knob becomes a lot more controllable.
Also, I would be VERY wary of playing with one earplug in and one out, or 2 different types. That's a short path to having very lopsided hearing in the long run (say goodbye to stereo!). The difference between amp side and non amp side (or cymbal side and non cymbal side, etc...) is really not that much, especially when you take into account room reflections, other sound sources, etc... So just wear the same type of hearing protection in both ears.
But yeah, if you can't hear yourself with 2800w and an 8x10, imagine the poor audience? It's just straight up irresponsible to subject them to SPLs that crazy (and obviously unnecessarily) high.
If this guy doesn't understand that his overbearing volume is ruining the overall sound of the WHOLE band, there's nothing you can do about it and you'll be fighting it and miserable the whole time.
Those Hot Rod Deluxe amps DO have a master volume (and gain), there's no reason why you cant play one at any volume you might want, including down to whisper quiet late night bedroom practice levels. He probably meant his gain was at 1 (or maybe he meant 1 o clock!) and his master was cranked. Well, back the master off to 1/2 to 3/4 and then the gain knob becomes a lot more controllable.
Also, I would be VERY wary of playing with one earplug in and one out, or 2 different types. That's a short path to having very lopsided hearing in the long run (say goodbye to stereo!). The difference between amp side and non amp side (or cymbal side and non cymbal side, etc...) is really not that much, especially when you take into account room reflections, other sound sources, etc... So just wear the same type of hearing protection in both ears.
But yeah, if you can't hear yourself with 2800w and an 8x10, imagine the poor audience? It's just straight up irresponsible to subject them to SPLs that crazy (and obviously unnecessarily) high.
How about just offset the drum set a couple feet towards that lead guitarist side of the stage, just far enough so your bass rig will fit between the rhythm guitarist and drummer?
Word
The other guitarist (who runs our sound) says, "We miked the guitars so we can keep the stage volume down." (Erm, okay, then why is so-and-so playing at 150 dB??
Ridiculous. Sorry, but I'm not buying the whole "I have to make more noise than a Boeing 747 in order to 'my tone'". That's complete jive. And it's thoroughly amateur. Any guitarist who is unable to get "his tone" at practically any volume level simply doesn't know what he's doing. Period.
Gotta have the sound of saturated power tubes? Use a power soak. Or get a smaller amp. Master volume is only on "1", yet it's still way too loud? Definitely get a smaller amp - maybe a much smaller amp. And so on, and so forth, yadda yadda yadda...
Bottom line: Your boy doesn't turn down because he doesn't want to turn down; because he likes being the dominant force in your band, and forcing everyone else to turn up in order to compete. And judging by your new comments, it would seem he has the rest of the band under his spell of irrationality. (Reminds me of the "She's a Witch" scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.)
If reason, good taste and common sense don't work, brute force is about the only option left to you. Get a 5,600-watt rig and use two (or four!) 8x10s, and see how he likes it. Of course, that would be like a competition between dumb and dumber...
At this point, your egomaniacal "friend" will probably shoot down any idea you suggest from now on - no matter how practical and reasonable - just because he's determined to have his own way. You think you can deal with that kind of pig-headedness? Good luck. You already know your alternative course of action...
MM
So you're saying that the difference between a -15db and a -30 db earplug worn in separate ears will create lopsided hearing?
Is that a new medical term?
IME, in the long run (decades), having better hearing in one ear is a LOT better than have bad hearing in both ears.
+1 on the guitarist wanting the old bass player back. Now that he's found a way to push your buttons, no way that he will turn down. If he's as much of an ass you portray him to be, he's also an opportunist who will start working on the other members of the band/crew to get rid of you for complaining about him. I suggest you stop and focus on what you can do.
+1 on moving over to the high hat side of the drums and shifting the front lineup a bit. Locking in with the drummer and hearing yourself are way more important than hearing the guitarist. I think this is the method/philosophy you should work on. Use the guitarist's philosophy against him. Focus on your needs to make changes to get "your sound" and proper setup on stage especially since it won't change the FOH sound of the band, you have to question their motives.
This whole "new guy" thing, IMO, is ridiculous.
It's seems it just another way to perpetuate bad ideas w/o considering reasonable alternatives. What is this "seniority" nonsense? When something's not working, it's not working, especially if it's just the personal preference of one of the band members.
If the sound guy worked with the old bass player, then he's also working against you as demonstrated by his irrational arguments about stage volume.
Good luck.
jive1
Commercial User
Giving your guitarists the benefit of the doubt that they aren't complete @$$hats, there's a possibility that they have hearing loss. He may legitimately not be able to hear unless the amp's cranked. If they've been playing like that for a long time without plugs, there's a good chance they do have hearing loss. And even if they don't, when you get blasted with sound, your ears go through Temporary Threshold Shift (TTS) which is basically temporary hearing loss. That means you'll need to crank it even louder to hear yourself, which may only repeat the cycle. There's a good chance the OP is going through that himself.
The key is knowing when TTS happens. I've had gigs before I wore plugs where I stood too close to a crash cymbal and then my hearing went on the first hit. The temptation is to reach for the volume knob, but the reality is that nothing else changed other than the fact you can't hear as well for a while. TTS can also become permanent hearing damage if done repeatedly and/or over a long time. That's why I wear earplugs. Because if I got TTS, I would no longer have a good idea of what my sound is like in the mix. Oddly, over the course of the night, I have a better idea of what my sound is like with plugs because I don't get temporary hearing loss. And I get to go home and go to bed without my head feeling and sounding like it's in a bell.
The key is knowing when TTS happens. I've had gigs before I wore plugs where I stood too close to a crash cymbal and then my hearing went on the first hit. The temptation is to reach for the volume knob, but the reality is that nothing else changed other than the fact you can't hear as well for a while. TTS can also become permanent hearing damage if done repeatedly and/or over a long time. That's why I wear earplugs. Because if I got TTS, I would no longer have a good idea of what my sound is like in the mix. Oddly, over the course of the night, I have a better idea of what my sound is like with plugs because I don't get temporary hearing loss. And I get to go home and go to bed without my head feeling and sounding like it's in a bell.
