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Trying to get along in my band...
- Thread starter ChrisB2
- Start date
>ssshhewwww<
So the consensus seems to be, leave the band.
I'm leaning away from the mixer/IEM idea. I just don't want to invest a few hundred bucks in something I don't know I'll like.
I really dislike the ETY earplugs too. They do a great job, but the feel of the show is gone for me.
But, I hate to leave suspecting that I might be getting squeezed out. The idea makes me want to stay out of spite. Dumb, I know.
I also hate to leave since I like the guys and know I'll have trouble getting back in a band this good (even though there's legitimate questions on how "good" we are, considering...).
Work has slowed considerably for us with winter coming. I have some time to contemplate....
Arrghh....
So the consensus seems to be, leave the band.
I'm leaning away from the mixer/IEM idea. I just don't want to invest a few hundred bucks in something I don't know I'll like.
I really dislike the ETY earplugs too. They do a great job, but the feel of the show is gone for me.
But, I hate to leave suspecting that I might be getting squeezed out. The idea makes me want to stay out of spite. Dumb, I know.
I also hate to leave since I like the guys and know I'll have trouble getting back in a band this good (even though there's legitimate questions on how "good" we are, considering...).
Work has slowed considerably for us with winter coming. I have some time to contemplate....
Arrghh....
How about you ask them to try a stage setup with you on the other side for a couple of gigs and see how it goes?
By not compromising on this, it seems you are being squeezed out because the "star" wants his old bass player back.
Are you sure work has slowed down or are they gigging with the other bass player w/o telling you?
Seen it before.
Just sayin....
By not compromising on this, it seems you are being squeezed out because the "star" wants his old bass player back.
Are you sure work has slowed down or are they gigging with the other bass player w/o telling you?
Seen it before.
Just sayin....
LOL. Wow, I thought I had a suspicious mind!
Hadn't thought of that but wouldn't be too surprised. I'm not really that worried about getting fired, if it happens it happens, but I don't like being squeezed out and will probably resist it.
Years ago when my brother had a business he told me, "I don't fire people, I make them so miserable they quit." Well, I remember that and realize it may be happening, but I prefer to make them fire me.
And I would love to switch sides of the stage, but it just isn't possible. I've been trying to think of where I can go, but there isn't anywhere else. There's just too much gear. I always end up with his amp on a kick-back stand, pointed at my ears.
As I flip-flop around thinking about this day to day, I'm thinking I'll probably give the ETYs another try. They're in my gig bag so I should probably just try them again....
And I would love to switch sides of the stage, but it just isn't possible. I've been trying to think of where I can go, but there isn't anywhere else. There's just too much gear. I always end up with his amp on a kick-back stand, pointed at my ears.
That's why I suggested you just let the guitar player slide in next to the drummer and you go outside of him on the same side of the stage. This gets you out of direct line of his amp. Give it a try.
I'm already to the far left (looking out). He stays inboard, next to the lead singer, because he sings lead on a few songs.
Sometimes I think he POINTS his amp at me, but I'm a little paranoid...
He also seems to place his things around in a huge circle during setup, all around the area we share, making setup more difficult than necessary.
It's weird; at the same time, he's very nice and pleasant to talk with.
Man. Either I'm really paranoid and too self-concious, or this guy's a major jerk!
Do you have a sound guy? Mic his amp with an AKG n blast it right back at him. Make a deal with the sound guy to force him to turn down his amp. A good sound guy should be your friend. Hell never piss off a sound guy no matter what. But get him on your team. Point his amp sideways. It will bleed thru the back. Getting stage volumes correct is so important and a rocking guitar player that hasn't learned this only want to hear himself.
I have a guitar player with a Mesa boogie mark IV and a hard trucker 2x12 celestion golds. It can't point at me by the end of the night encore volumes I'm digging for ear plugs cause depending if a main is behind me I've got that and organ screaming. In my ear last show there was a problem with the venues mains and the last 10 min killed me. My ears rang for hours.
There is a bunch of great advise for and how to fix this but if it was me I would do stupid simple things to help. You could amaze yourself just angle a little this way and two steps that way could do it.
I have a guitar player with a Mesa boogie mark IV and a hard trucker 2x12 celestion golds. It can't point at me by the end of the night encore volumes I'm digging for ear plugs cause depending if a main is behind me I've got that and organ screaming. In my ear last show there was a problem with the venues mains and the last 10 min killed me. My ears rang for hours.
There is a bunch of great advise for and how to fix this but if it was me I would do stupid simple things to help. You could amaze yourself just angle a little this way and two steps that way could do it.
This looks like an old thread and by now you've either solved your problem or walked, but I've experienced the same stuff and sometimes it just comes down to proximity and the fundamentals of sound. If nobody in the audience was complaining about bad balance, and the guy's amp was on 1, the sound people are happy, the rest of the band's happy, then you are/were simply in a bad sound pocket. Sound takes some distance from the source to develop and congeal, so you could easily have been getting your head shattered while everything out front truly was just peachy. Plus, you describe this player as a good guy to talk to - I guess I've met a few folks who are colossal jerks on stage and pretty affable otherwise, but it's rare. Jerks are usually jerks regardless of the situation.
Probably too late to matter, but it really could have been a problem that was uniquely yours, and caused by infexible circumstances...not necessarily because any of you were rotten human beings. People have left bands over far pettier stuff, to be sure.
Probably too late to matter, but it really could have been a problem that was uniquely yours, and caused by infexible circumstances...not necessarily because any of you were rotten human beings. People have left bands over far pettier stuff, to be sure.
I want to know what happened?
I'd make the investment for IEM. If nothing goes into the PA it will sound funny but at least you can hear yourself.
My guess is this guitarist is probably a decent player that is full of himself. He likes to dominate the mix and has a lot of drinking buddies that come out to hear him. Get used to the IEM and you can maybe make it work. If not at least use ear plugs. Nothing is worth going deaf for.
I'd make the investment for IEM. If nothing goes into the PA it will sound funny but at least you can hear yourself.
My guess is this guitarist is probably a decent player that is full of himself. He likes to dominate the mix and has a lot of drinking buddies that come out to hear him. Get used to the IEM and you can maybe make it work. If not at least use ear plugs. Nothing is worth going deaf for.
Couple ways you could handle it... one, go wireless. Let him be the star on the stage, while you learn to play while crowd surfing!
Or if you're looking at new gear for ear monitors anyway, get yourself a reasonable sound level meter, measure the same distance from your stack as his, and make sure you match.
Or if you're looking at new gear for ear monitors anyway, get yourself a reasonable sound level meter, measure the same distance from your stack as his, and make sure you match.
This. Our guitarists Fenders (DRRI & Princeton) do that as well.
Volume at < 1: Can't hear a thing if there are other instruments.
1: Bearable without plugs.
2-4: Earplug time.
4+ (on DRRI): doesn't get louder, just more drive from the tubes.
4+ (on Princeton): Holy crap a cargo plane.
IIRC, on the DRRI the sweet spot is around 3-4. Just move further away or use plugs. (Disclamer: I don't really get people who don't protect their hearing, I use plugs all the time.)
One of our guitarists installed a linear volume pot to help smooth out the increase in volume.
Also, turning the amp to face a wall is helpful sometimes.
A friend of mine uses a couple of 7 watt amps to get his tone at a reasonable volume and just mics it at a gig.
Wow, I had forgotten this thread. I should update, thanks for reminding me.
So, I stayed with the band. Surprisingly, we survived a pretty majorly explosive s##t storm last fall (fornication related), have put that behind us (for now), and are zooming into a busy summer with better bookings.
The guy in question got a new amp, a smaller boutique tube jobbie that will still split eardrums but has more control of the lower volume. Also he finally heard us telling him "turn that s##t down" enough and actually did start playing lower. Ironically, at our gig Saturday he crept back up but I can handle it now and then.
I have tried the ETYs a couple of more times just to remind myself what it's like but I just do not want to play music with earplugs. If I had to do that I would probably quit gigging since being "in" the music is really important to my enjoyment of it. I know I'm risking having some hearing issues but at my age I've decided to make the trade-off... I love to gig, only have a few years left to do it, and just have to take the chance. I used to smoke cigarettes and traded the possibility of lung cancer for the "joy" of inhaling noxious fumes into my body. Um, this is a better deal IMO.
I'm glad I didn't leave the band. It took some time but he got things under control. We still have some sound issues but those are getting better as well. I really like him and the other guys in the band, the camaraderie of this group, the gigs... so all in all it's working out pretty great.
Quoting myself here to clarify: after reading the OP and the thread again, I see that I initially indicated that I was alone in my concern over his volume.
As I got to know everyone better I learned that we all thought he was too loud but I was the only one saying anything. Eventually they started supporting me more and once he got pressure from the whole band, that's when he got the new amp and turned down.
We're still too damn loud on stage. His volume is no longer "Holy S##t my head just exploded" stupid loud, but he still wants to be on top of everything and we're all just trying to hear ourselves with a hard hitting drummer. Not sure if we'll ever get to a "good" stage volume, but at least I'm happier with the problem in the OP.
Thanks everyone for your input.
jive1
Commercial User
Really?!? I don't see how that would help. With a linear taper pot the sound increases slowly from about 0-70%, and from there it increases at a rapid rate. There isn't a direct correlation between resistance and volume, thus an audio taper pot compensates for that so that you get a smoother sweep of volume.
Go to Guitar Center (yeah, I know) and spend $14 on a pair of Hearos ear plugs. They do a great job cutting overall volume, but also seem to cut a good amount of upper-mids and highs, which will accentuate your bass. You can hear yourself, hear the drums, hear the guitarist and not go deaf. Best $14 I ever spent.
I had the same issue in my last band with a guitarist who had the same amp.
Sound level was off, ear splitting, and I want to die. Especially bad because I was forced to stand about 2' from it.
Quite a few Fender guitar amps have linear taper volume pots.
There's no creeping up on the volume level. They jump from almost nothing to too loud.
There's still another volume knob on the guitar, but they work more like tone/edge knobs in live use.
