Happy to oblige.
It makes it hard to walk away, even if that's your intention and the best thing to do, when people twist the living crap out of your words, ignore your well-worded point, and make questionable observations.
Thanks for understanding.
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Trying Vegetarianism for a week or so
- Thread starter kanonfodr
- Start date
Happy to oblige.
It makes it hard to walk away, even if that's your intention and the best thing to do, when people twist the living crap out of your words, ignore your well-worded point, and make questionable observations.
Thanks for understanding.
I've yet to hear of a tofu factory filling an entire city with stench, and overloading the city's sewage handling infrastructure.
For the record, I'm not a vegetarian, but I consume relatively little meat. From the most simplistic possible perspective:
1. You can raise corn and soybeans, and feed them to humans. Or,
2. You can raise corn and soybeans, feed them to animals, and feed the animals to humans.
I can't see how the second process could possibly be more ecological than the first. Now, let's add a layer of complexity, since nobody eats raw corn and soybeans, and nobody eats raw meat:
1. You can convert corn and soybeans into yummy things, and also make them less perishable, involving a varying amount of waste and pollution.
2. You can convert corn and soybeans into meat, and either refrigerate meat until it's eaten, or make it into yummy things, and also make it less perishable, involving a varying amount of waste and pollution.
It's possible that the first option generates more waste and pollution, but that possibility seems pretty remote. Also, in both cases, the amount of processing that you demand in order to make the food yummy enough so you can eat enough to maintain your desired body weight, is a personal choice. "Meat substitute food products" sounds ominous, and not necessarily part of a vegetarian diet.
I'm guessing that if people voluntarily reduced their meat consumption while eating enough food to maintain a healthy body weight, there would be less damage to the environment from food production. Some meat would still be farmed, and it would consume most of the waste produced by processing of vegetable foods.
I also was unaware of the negative environmental impact of food processing plants, including those that make meat substitute products, until just this afternoon when my curiosity lead me to research it a bit.
I highly recommend you do the same.
What is a meat substitute product?
Perhaps you could share your links, then we'll both be on the same page.
Perhaps you could share your links, then we'll both be on the same page.
I don't know what the others are referring to, but products like these guys make are what I think of when seeing the term meat substitute.
Invalid Link Removed
Seriously dude?
Look, if you want to play around with something, I can make some suggestions. Otherwise, please don't waste my time.
Perhaps you can Google keywords "tofu" "vegetarian" "meat substitute" "environmental impact" "pollution" etc. etc. and research.
It will do you good.
It makes more sense for the claimant to be the one to furnish the evidence. Just two or three of the links that you think do the best job of supporting your case.
- Oct 7, 2000
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- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
Wow. Another one of these threads. There's nothing to argue here. Everyone knows it's healthier for us, and the rest of the planet if we eat vegetarian. All this other stuff is just people trying to justify their choice to eat meat. There is no good reason for a human to eat meat, other than because they want to. 
And ya'll know, deep down inside, that this is the truth.
And ya'll know, deep down inside, that this is the truth.
RS said:
You amuse me.
If you know some basics of biology, you have your answer.
Nobody intended us to be anything, but we did evolve as an omnivorous animal. Our digestive system, and our teeth, aren't especialised towards a vegetarian diet at all... nor towards a carnivorous one. It's just kind of ok at both.
This is Not to say you cannot do without meat, because you can. Easily. Today. But our ancestors did not have that luxury and had to eat meat and vegetables to get the right nutrients.
That's all.
Don't "whatever" others if you intend to be taken seriously.
This is the biological truth.
I try to explain it before.
@Joe Nerve
There is something to debate here because you said that is better to be vegetarian but there is no evidence.
About the China Study, is not a good reference.
Here is the critique. http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
Here the scientific papers. http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/07/31/one-year-later-the-china-study-revisited-and-re-bashed/
As I said before there is not evidence to said is better to be vegetarian.
When I turned 40, my cholesterol was high enough that my doctor was going to put me on statins to lower it to acceptable levels.
I flat out refused and told him I'd quit the junk food and also go vegetarian as a first response to get my numbers down to healthy levels.
I'm not overweight (5'11" @ 155-lbs), and keep fairly active, just had terrible eating habits.
He chuckled and said it's not going to work, but it's my choice, and he scheduled me to get re-checked in 90 days and flat out said he doubted it would do me any good.
My wife's a vegetarian (almost vegan), so I buckled down and held to my high-fiber-vegetarian-no junk food regimen for the next 90 days.
Had my blood drawn and went in to see the doctor as requested.
He walks through the door holding my folder and asks how I've been and asked how the vegetarian test went.
I said fine and let him know what I ate.
He again tells me not to expect a big change and that cholesterol blockers were probably still going to be needed.
Then he opened up my folder and checked my blood test results with a smirk on his face and I got the pleasure of watching his jaw drop and eyes widen as he read my numbers to me.
I dropped my cholesterol level down to 157 total, with the LDL at 97, and the HDL at 60, and triglicerides were at 110.
He stammered a bit and said, "Huh! I would never have thought that would have happened! That's amazing!"
I remained vegetarian for a couple more months, then started adding a little meat back into my diet.
I am a carnivore, half Native American from two tribes in Alaska where there are no vegetables in our history other than berries & some ferns & roots. We lived on a diet of mostly fish (salmon and halibut. Shellfish was only eaten during times when the hunting was bad or the salmon runs were small), whale, seal, moose, caribou, for several thousand years (around 7,000+ years, actually) with no ill-health, and average to above average life spans compared to our European counterparts.
I could only take so much of the veggies-only fare before cracking.
I only eat about 4-oz of meat a day, and my cholesterol & triglicerides, almost 6 years later, are still the same low numbers, rarely fluctuating more than a few points.
Definitely feel better in general, too.
I flat out refused and told him I'd quit the junk food and also go vegetarian as a first response to get my numbers down to healthy levels.
I'm not overweight (5'11" @ 155-lbs), and keep fairly active, just had terrible eating habits.
He chuckled and said it's not going to work, but it's my choice, and he scheduled me to get re-checked in 90 days and flat out said he doubted it would do me any good.
My wife's a vegetarian (almost vegan), so I buckled down and held to my high-fiber-vegetarian-no junk food regimen for the next 90 days.
Had my blood drawn and went in to see the doctor as requested.
He walks through the door holding my folder and asks how I've been and asked how the vegetarian test went.
I said fine and let him know what I ate.
He again tells me not to expect a big change and that cholesterol blockers were probably still going to be needed.
Then he opened up my folder and checked my blood test results with a smirk on his face and I got the pleasure of watching his jaw drop and eyes widen as he read my numbers to me.
I dropped my cholesterol level down to 157 total, with the LDL at 97, and the HDL at 60, and triglicerides were at 110.
He stammered a bit and said, "Huh! I would never have thought that would have happened! That's amazing!"
I remained vegetarian for a couple more months, then started adding a little meat back into my diet.
I am a carnivore, half Native American from two tribes in Alaska where there are no vegetables in our history other than berries & some ferns & roots. We lived on a diet of mostly fish (salmon and halibut. Shellfish was only eaten during times when the hunting was bad or the salmon runs were small), whale, seal, moose, caribou, for several thousand years (around 7,000+ years, actually) with no ill-health, and average to above average life spans compared to our European counterparts.
I could only take so much of the veggies-only fare before cracking.
I only eat about 4-oz of meat a day, and my cholesterol & triglicerides, almost 6 years later, are still the same low numbers, rarely fluctuating more than a few points.
Definitely feel better in general, too.
Wow. Another one of these threads. There's nothing to argue here. Everyone knows it's healthier for us, and the rest of the planet if we eat vegetarian. All this other stuff is just people trying to justify their choice to eat meat. There is no good reason for a human to eat meat, other than because they want to.
Might as well lock the thread. This has said it all
This is an awesome story, thanks for posting it DB! Way to go on demonstrating the link between diet and health indicators to your doctor. Great to hear you feel better as a result.
I have a friend with a very similar story. Good to know that statins aren`t always the answer; they can be expensive. I hope you are buying bass gear with the money you are saving.
Wife and I have been vegetarian for 4 or 5 years now. It was hard in my small hometown, but not impossible, to find veg options when eating out.
How to Cook Everything Vegetarian by Mark Bittman is the only cookbook we really use.
How to Cook Everything Vegetarian by Mark Bittman is the only cookbook we really use.
Agreed.
Statins are not only expensive, they have negative side effects as well. Some, if not most of them put a strain on a person's liver.
Trying to be meat free as long as possible to test my high levels myself. I have been on Statins for 4 years enough is enough.
Being active also has a large impact on HDL, LDL, and total cholesterol. (By being active, I don't mean work hard at work or work up a sweat at gigs. I mean a regular exercise program.)
what I've learned from this thread:
fast food is analogous to meat
no one is allowed to have a personal preference on either side of the argument.
fast food is analogous to meat
no one is allowed to have a personal preference on either side of the argument.
Wow. Another one of these threads. There's nothing to argue here. Everyone knows it's healthier for us, and the rest of the planet if we eat vegetarian. All this other stuff is just people trying to justify their choice to eat meat. There is no good reason for a human to eat meat, other than because they want to.
I agree. Inside it is something I have known for years but would not admit and even fought. Anyone who says meat in a Western diet or the western diet in general is not harmful are not educated enough.
I am going as far from meat as I can. As of now I am doing a vegan diet and will adjust as needed and see how I feel and think as time goes on. Where this leads me who knows? Being a vegetarian is like allot of things in life that are a personal choice. If you want take time to be educated and informed great if not thats fine to but it's not up debate in my book.
what I've learned from this thread:
fast food is analogous to meat
no one is allowed to have a personal preference on either side of the argument.[/QUOTE]
Except for me.
