TT800 w/Para EQ in fx loop: how important is quality/should I even bother

[bikingbassist]

Recently got a Mesa TT-800 and am loving it. I like both channels. But I almost went for the WD800 because of those 3 sweepable mid bands.

To scratch that itch (and my obsessive control one) I'm considering sticking an EQ in an fx loop. I have a WMD 3 band para EQ and am thinking to myself, "voila, I get the TT800 tone/features and the mid control of the WD800."

My question is: how important is the quality of circuits making those eq changes?
For example, is the eq circuitry in the WD800 "better" and even though I'd have 3 extra mid bands from the WMD to tweak, it still wouldn't be the tone the Mesa eq gives.
Along those thoughts I've considered looking for an old Mesa graphic eq or the Subway+ DI/Preamp to use in the loop for more "Mesa tone".

So how much should I bother with what the eq is? Beyond avoiding super cheap stuff. I think the WMD stuff is certainly "quality enough".
I know some will say why even bother with it if you are happy as is, which is valid and I'm almost there myself. But I can't help but want that extra control and it would be so convenient to use the USB power on the back to jack in some extra tone control.

And fwiw I would run the WMD para at 18 or 24 volts to maximize the headroom so I could hopefully handle all the preamp gain I'd be hitting it with.

Thanks in advance for anyone who wants to pitch their opinion!

 

[ole Jason]

I can't imagine it would matter unless the EQ is creating noise OR imparting it's own tone on the signal in a way you don't want. If the WMD is transparent you should be good to go. Interesting question, I'm curious to hear the thoughts of others.

 

[Nebadon2000]

I have WD 800 and like the Idea with footswitch can bypass Para EQ

In your situation would also be adding 2 extra cords for signal to travel through.

I now have Para set up for 'Tube Grind' setup in manual and can switch in or bypass

My other use for Para would be for problems sound wise in live venue not tone shaping

BUT I am going to experiment with Para for tone
I have always gone by less things signal has to travel through the better: but that is me

Hopefully Andy will chip in

I would listen to what he has to say and will if he replies

 

[agedhorse]

Used in the effects loop, whatever eq you choose needs to be able to handle a +4dBu line level and not just instrument level.

If using an external preamp with the TT, it will work best substituting for one of the on-board preamps.

 

[bikingbassist]

Used in the effects loop, whatever eq you choose needs to be able to handle a +4dBu line level and not just instrument level.

If using an external preamp with the TT, it will work best substituting for one of the on-board preamps.

Thanks for pointing out that if using a Subway pre to just use it as the front and the use the TT for it's power amp section. I don't see myself doing that because I like the Boogie and Subway channels and it would be overkill to use one of those pres for just a couple of adjustable mid bands. (Though one day I may pick up a D800+ to get sort of what I think is the other end of the family of the Subway line) Mainly got thinking about that because of desire to use quality stuff and more Mesa tone, whatever that means.

Do you have any input on whether the design/components in some of the Mesa products would have noticably better tone than something like the WMD para EQ?

One last question, which feels like a low level one, how can I know if the eq pedal can handle +4dBu like level and not just instrument? Would running it at 18 or 24V address that?

 

[Wasnex]

Recently got a Mesa TT-800 and am loving it. I like both channels. But I almost went for the WD800 because of those 3 sweepable mid bands.

To scratch that itch (and my obsessive control one) I'm considering sticking an EQ in an fx loop. I have a WMD 3 band para EQ and am thinking to myself, "voila, I get the TT800 tone/features and the mid control of the WD800."

My question is: how important is the quality of circuits making those eq changes?
For example, is the eq circuitry in the WD800 "better" and even though I'd have 3 extra mid bands from the WMD to tweak, it still wouldn't be the tone the Mesa eq gives.
Along those thoughts I've considered looking for an old Mesa graphic eq or the Subway+ DI/Preamp to use in the loop for more "Mesa tone".

So how much should I bother with what the eq is? Beyond avoiding super cheap stuff. I think the WMD stuff is certainly "quality enough".
I know some will say why even bother with it if you are happy as is, which is valid and I'm almost there myself. But I can't help but want that extra control and it would be so convenient to use the USB power on the back to jack in some extra tone control.

And fwiw I would run the WMD para at 18 or 24 volts to maximize the headroom so I could hopefully handle all the preamp gain I'd be hitting it with.

Thanks in advance for anyone who wants to pitch their opinion!

Quality is important in a parametric EQ. But IMHO why don't you just try it and judge for yourself?

I researched the WMD awhile back. The feature it had that I liked is continuously variable Q. Most parametric EQ pedals are not fully parametric as they have either fixed Q or a toggle to select a few different options.

I read some less than favorable reviews on the WMD. It's been awhile, but I believe the complaint was some nasty interaction between the filters with some settings. I assume this is due to the quality of the design, rather than quality of the components. To be fair, there were some very positive reviews as well. Apparently it sounds pretty good overall.

I chose the Empress ParaEQ V7, with switchable Q. I paid extra for a used one since Empress stopped making them for awhile. If I knew they were going to update the design, I would have waited and bought the Mk2 Empress ParaEQ Deluxe...which has variable Q.

I have a pretty big amp collection with lots of Mesa bass amps. I don't have any of the Subway line. If I decide to by one, I will need to buy three. I would want the D800+, WD800, and TT800.

 

[agedhorse]

Thanks for pointing out that if using a Subway pre to just use it as the front and the use the TT for it's power amp section. I don't see myself doing that because I like the Boogie and Subway channels and it would be overkill to use one of those pres for just a couple of adjustable mid bands. (Though one day I may pick up a D800+ to get sort of what I think is the other end of the family of the Subway line) Mainly got thinking about that because of desire to use quality stuff and more Mesa tone, whatever that means.

Do you have any input on whether the design/components in some of the Mesa products would have noticably better tone than something like the WMD para EQ?

One last question, which feels like a low level one, how can I know if the eq pedal can handle +4dBu like level and not just instrument? Would running it at 18 or 24V address that?

It’s all about the levels, and that’s addressed within the design. The operating voltage is not a reliable indicator. I don’t know about the WMD.

 

[Wasnex]

It’s all about the levels, and that’s addressed within the design. The operating voltage is not a reliable indicator. I don’t know about the WMD.

Good point! AFAIK the WMD is designed to work at instrument level. So it should be run in front of the amp, rather than in an effects loop, which is typically line level.

 

[bikingbassist]

Cool appreciate the added insight. I know a little about different levels and whatnot, but clearly not the whole enchilada.
Well I'll try it out and see what it sounds like.

I am a little curious though because I thought fx loops were mainly used by people sticking pedals in them, I think usually modulation stuff or delays and verbs, but still I thought it was mainly pedals which are generally instrument level not line.

 

[bikingbassist]

I do gotta say I'm tickled to be hearing directly from you agedhorse after reading basically every thread on the Subway amps and cabs and gaining a lot of respect for your approach and the work that went into that line as well as others

 

[Wasnex]

Cool appreciate the added insight. I know a little about different levels and whatnot, but clearly not the whole enchilada.
Well I'll try it out and see what it sounds like.

I am a little curious though because I thought fx loops were mainly used by people sticking pedals in them, I think usually modulation stuff or delays and verbs, but still I thought it was mainly pedals which are generally instrument level not line.

Studio rack gear that operates at line level should work fine in effects loops. Instrument level pedals...not so much.

In my experience the signal-level-mismatch results a poor Signal to Noise ratio and limited headroom, which leads to excessive hum, clipping, and difficulties with gain staging.

 

[agedhorse]

Effects loops are mostly used for line level effect like rack gear the can’t operate at instrument levels.

Some pedals can operate at line level, but most operate at instrument level.

 

[Lowbrow]

Cool appreciate the added insight. I know a little about different levels and whatnot, but clearly not the whole enchilada.
Well I'll try it out and see what it sounds like.

I am a little curious though because I thought fx loops were mainly used by people sticking pedals in them, I think usually modulation stuff or delays and verbs, but still I thought it was mainly pedals which are generally instrument level not line.

Effects loop line vs. instrument level consideration is a concept I was totally unaware of (never really messed with loops or much external processing). I probably just got lucky because I was able to stick a Boss PQ-3B parametric pedal in the effects loop of my Ampeg RB and achieved the added EQ flexibility I want without any discernible negatives.
I’ve today poked around to determine the level of the RB loop and have since come up empty.

 

[bherman]

I used an MXR 10 band eq on my pedalboard for a while when I was doing a lot of gigs (double bass) both straight into FOH as well as into the front end of my amp. It worked out quite well - very responsive little unit. Given the info provided here by our TB sound experts @agedhorse and @Wasnex) I’d probably forgo the efx loop idea and stick with instrument line in.