Would it be equivalent loud? or somehow tube amps are 'louder' than the solid-state even when both are marketed as 300watss?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Tube 300w vs Solid-state 300w?
- Thread starter crguti
- Start date
IMHO I think many Class D amplifiers are vastly overrated. Ive yet to hear a Class D 300w amp be as loud as my buddies 300w 16 x 10 SVT.
Or my other buddies 200w Hiwatt DR201.
Loudest Solid State amp Ive heard is my 300w Sunn Coliseum Lead with 8 JBL D120s. While its extremely loud, its still not as loud as my buddies Hiwatt DR201
Or my other buddies 200w Hiwatt DR201.
Loudest Solid State amp Ive heard is my 300w Sunn Coliseum Lead with 8 JBL D120s. While its extremely loud, its still not as loud as my buddies Hiwatt DR201
Last edited:
A much discussed topic, and lots of threads on this perception.
IME, several aspects tend to get confused in this discussion.
First, what we call an amplifier is actually a preamplifier circuit coupled with a power amplifier. So, there are two circuits going on plus yin yang between them; the sum of which depends on the circuit designer’s intent / skill.
Second, bass players often confuse “feel” with power.
For example the SVT is an awesome amp mainly because of it’s feel.
You can only play so loud in an ensemble. The power rating, if done correctly, mainly relates to overall volume; but we do tend to go overboard with power to get proper feel at lower volumes. And, some of that depends on whether the individual player is going for distortion in the power amp circuit.
I have a little Class D Demeter 400W amp, which gets a lot of use; because it has the correct feel, more than adequate power for most gigs, and sounds fantastic. Plus, it is tiny.
Short answer: 300W is more than adequate for most gigs. The real question is whether or not the specific amp has the correct feel; which relates to power in a somewhat complicated way, but does not simplify to tubes vs SS, IME. YMMV
IME, several aspects tend to get confused in this discussion.
First, what we call an amplifier is actually a preamplifier circuit coupled with a power amplifier. So, there are two circuits going on plus yin yang between them; the sum of which depends on the circuit designer’s intent / skill.
Second, bass players often confuse “feel” with power.
For example the SVT is an awesome amp mainly because of it’s feel.
You can only play so loud in an ensemble. The power rating, if done correctly, mainly relates to overall volume; but we do tend to go overboard with power to get proper feel at lower volumes. And, some of that depends on whether the individual player is going for distortion in the power amp circuit.
I have a little Class D Demeter 400W amp, which gets a lot of use; because it has the correct feel, more than adequate power for most gigs, and sounds fantastic. Plus, it is tiny.
Short answer: 300W is more than adequate for most gigs. The real question is whether or not the specific amp has the correct feel; which relates to power in a somewhat complicated way, but does not simplify to tubes vs SS, IME. YMMV
Last edited:
As said before, if they are measured the same (RMS), then watts are watts. 300 watts RMS should produce relatively the same volume “with all other things being equal” (cabinet, room, settings and more).
Don’t measure it by how loud it is with the volume control set at noon since preamp ranges might be different. One amp might have both gain and volume, the other, just post eq vol. They will sound “different” for a variety of reasons, but 300 watts is 300 watts. Just don’t dime the volume control to try and measure max db’s because that might be dangerous to both hearing and equipment.
Don’t measure it by how loud it is with the volume control set at noon since preamp ranges might be different. One amp might have both gain and volume, the other, just post eq vol. They will sound “different” for a variety of reasons, but 300 watts is 300 watts. Just don’t dime the volume control to try and measure max db’s because that might be dangerous to both hearing and equipment.
300 tube watts will seem louder because it IS louder. It has to do with how the signal from your instrument is processed. A tube amp processes the signal with a more symmetrical “soft clipping” which is carried to the load with less actual resistance (impedance) which in turn equals more actual power. I’m sure that someone like @agedhorse can weigh in here, and explain all about tubes and transformers vs transistors but there it is...
Last edited:
That was the short answer, in french.lol I was editing and my keyboard got stuck.
In a 300W fight, the tube amp always wins.
I'm sure its not the only answer, but someone far smarter than me at building bass amps once told me "power does not equal volume"
I still ponder that question as there have been times where a lower power rated tube head sounds louder and other times where a lower rated SS head will sound louder.
I still ponder that question as there have been times where a lower power rated tube head sounds louder and other times where a lower rated SS head will sound louder.
I've never seen this explanation before and will be very interested to see what Agedhorse says.
As someone who owns a 300w tube head... I agree except for when the times I dont!
If you ask the people at T.C. Electronics, it's even more complicated than that. IIRC the RH 750 has less than 300 Watts but is marketed as a 750 Watt amp, because they do multi band compression that makes the 'feel' of the amp louder than it is.
I must say that in times of super efficient cabinets and class D heads, the question somehow got less important.
My Class D head (which is marketed as 500W), gets my barefaced cabinets (the total rig is less than 50lbs) so loud that when I'm standing right in front of them, my vision blurs because my eyeballs vibrate.
I got headroom to spare (at least there's some left on the master vol), but I straight out refuse to turn up further than that, ever. If these SPL are required, I tell the guy playing the jackhammer to turn down a notch.
If my rig gets me as loud as I'd ever need with headroom to spare, I quit thinking about how much a watt is when a different kind of amp produces it.
I must say that in times of super efficient cabinets and class D heads, the question somehow got less important.
My Class D head (which is marketed as 500W), gets my barefaced cabinets (the total rig is less than 50lbs) so loud that when I'm standing right in front of them, my vision blurs because my eyeballs vibrate.
I got headroom to spare (at least there's some left on the master vol), but I straight out refuse to turn up further than that, ever. If these SPL are required, I tell the guy playing the jackhammer to turn down a notch.
If my rig gets me as loud as I'd ever need with headroom to spare, I quit thinking about how much a watt is when a different kind of amp produces it.
I've read other threads on this topic. I believe the consensus is that tubes inherently compress the incoming signal, which explains the increase in volume per watt.
Last edited:
