Tube 300w vs Solid-state 300w?

[patrickhowell]

Watts are watts. There is no difference between 300 tube watts and 300 solid state watts, but there are some reasons that you might experience a tube amp that is labeled as 300 watts that is louder than a solid state amp that is labeled as 300 watts.

As any amplifier reaches its maximum output, it will start to distort the signal, and max power ratings are measured with a certain % of harmonic distortion. Tube power amps usually still sound great beyond that level of distortion, but that's not often the case for solid state power amps.

Also, marketing people figured out that there are multiple ways to measure power (e.g. RMS, Program, Peak) and some of them decided to publish whichever is greatest to sell their amps. They may also choose to publish measurements with higher %THD than other manufacturers to make their amps look louder on paper. It's not always easy to get the same measurement to compare multiple amps.

 

[Jackcrow]

I think the rating at whatever % THD the manufacturer decides to use comes into play, since a tube amp will probably have more distortion at higher output. I will say though, I just switched from a Mesa WD-800 to a Mesa Prodigy (250 Watts all tube) and certainly did not experience a loss of output. If anything the prodigy seems louder.

 

[Killing Floor]

How loud is a watt?

Mike Watt is pretty loud. JJ Watt is pretty loud. Watt steam engines are not as loud as you think.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Anyone who thinks a 300w solid state amp is anywhere near as loud as a 300w tube amp can't possibly have used both. Generally I find that 300w solid state amps are comparable to 50-100w tube amps when it comes to perceived loudness (with slight variations between brands).

 

[ryan pate]

This talks about all the reasons tube amp watts vs solid state watts, compression, impedance, speaker SPL sorry I am no audio engineer, and only trying to be helpful. Also I love my solid state amps and what they can do for a fraction of the cost as well as the preservation of my lumbar spine.

 

[fourstringburn]

Amazing how Tube amps can violate ohms law… the perception between the two is just that, a perception!

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I've read other threads on this topic. I believe the consensus is that tubes inherently compress the incoming signal, which explains the increase in volume per watt.

But then you can run a compressor in the effects loop of a solid state amplifier. Compressors weigh less.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Anyone who thinks a 300w solid state amp is anywhere near as loud as a 300w tube amp can't possibly have used both. Generally I find that 300w solid state amps are comparable to 50-100w tube amps when it comes to perceived loudness (with slight variations between brands).

I've used both tube and solid state amps, gigged with both. In my experience if you run both truly clean, there's no difference.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Would it be equivalent loud? or somehow tube amps are 'louder' than the solid-state even when both are marketed as 300watss?

Watts are watts. That said, when you get to the maximum output, a tube amp might sound better than a solid state. JMO from a guy that has both, and has used both for decades.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

A much discussed topic, and lots of threads on this perception.

IME, several aspects tend to get confused in this discussion.

First, what we call an amplifier is actually a preamplifier circuit coupled with a power amplifier. So, there are two circuits going on plus yin yang between them; the sum of which depends on the circuit designer’s intent / skill.

Second, bass players often confuse “feel” with power.

For example the SVT is an awesome amp mainly because of it’s feel.

You can only play so loud in an ensemble. The power rating, if done correctly, mainly relates to overall volume; but we do tend to go overboard with power to get proper feel at lower volumes. And, some of that depends on whether the individual player is going for distortion in the power amp circuit.

I have a little Class D Demeter 400W amp, which gets a lot of use; because it has the correct feel, more than adequate power for most gigs, and sounds fantastic. Plus, it is tiny.
View attachment 4599191

Short answer: 300W is more than adequate for most gigs. The real question is whether or not the specific amp has the correct feel; which relates to power in a somewhat complicated way, but does not simplify to tubes vs SS, IME. YMMV

Great post.

Just a quick side bar here. IMO, most of the magic of the SVT head, is it being coupled to the 8-10 Fridge which is where most of the “feel” comes from. Cabs are critical to one’s sound, but often overlooked.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I've used both tube and solid state amps, gigged with both. In my experience if you run both truly clean, there's no difference.

Well, there's theoretical/measurable distortion and there's audible distortion and I've never heard a 300w solid state amp that can get anywhere near as loud as an SVT within the SVT's clean sounding range (meaning no perceived distortion, although it will of course be measurable when you push it close to it's audibly distorted volumes).

Besides, isn't solid state amps supposed to simulate this type of "fattening" tube/transformer saturation/distortion these days? So you basically won't get a "truly clean" tone anyway, just less volume. A truly clean sounding amp is probably not something I would personally like the sound of.

I'm not saying solid state is bad btw. I simply don't care if there's a measurable, theoretical distortion in "clean" sounding tube amps. In fact, it's probably the main reason I like them so much.

 

[BaltBass5]

There is a purely scientific answer…however I will tell you that my 100 watt all tube V4B absolutely murders my Ashdown ABM 600 watt SS as well as my Mesa Subway D800+ (800 watts) when it comes to volume.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Well, there's theoretical/measurable distortion and there's audible distortion and I've never heard a 300w solid state amp that can get anywhere near as loud as an SVT within the SVT's clean sounding range (meaning no perceived distortion, although it will of course be measurable when you push it close to it's audibly distorted volumes).

Besides, isn't solid state amps supposed to simulate this type of "fattening" tube/transformer saturation/distortion these days? So you basically won't get a "truly clean" tone anyway, just less volume. A truly clean sounding amp is probably not something I would personally like the sound of.

I'm not saying solid state is bad btw. I simply don't care if there's a measurable, theoretical distortion in "clean" sounding tube amps. In fact, it's probably the main reason I like them so much.

You can fatten something up that's glean sounding, but not vice versa. The tube amps I had sounded good, for sure. It's about perception of loudness, and that matters.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Well, there's theoretical/measurable distortion and there's audible distortion and I've never heard a 300w solid state amp that can get anywhere near as loud as an SVT within the SVT's clean sounding range (meaning no perceived distortion, although it will of course be measurable when you push it close to it's audibly distorted volumes).

Besides, isn't solid state amps supposed to simulate this type of "fattening" tube/transformer saturation/distortion these days? So you basically won't get a "truly clean" tone anyway, just less volume. A truly clean sounding amp is probably not something I would personally like the sound of.

I'm not saying solid state is bad btw. I simply don't care if there's a measurable, theoretical distortion in "clean" sounding tube amps. In fact, it's probably the main reason I like them so much.

You can fatten something up that's glean sounding, but not vice versa. The tube amps I had sounded good, for sure. It's about perception of loudness, and that matters.

 

[coy garcia]

Like others have said..watts don't equal volume. Tube watts are completely different.

 

[Sparky Mark]

You can fatten something up that's glean sounding, but not vice versa. The tube amps I had sounded good, for sure. It's about perception of loudness, and that matters.

You can say that again......oh, you already have (-;

 

[Smooth_bass88]

How loud is a watt?

Congratulations!! YOU WIN TB TODAY!

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Huh?

Me words no good....

 

[Wesley R]

I have previously stated: A Watt is a Watt until marketing gets a hold of it.

 

[Ric Vice]

A much discussed topic, and lots of threads on this perception.

IME, several aspects tend to get confused in this discussion.

First, what we call an amplifier is actually a preamplifier circuit coupled with a power amplifier. So, there are two circuits going on plus yin yang between them; the sum of which depends on the circuit designer’s intent / skill.

Second, bass players often confuse “feel” with power.

For example the SVT is an awesome amp mainly because of it’s feel.

You can only play so loud in an ensemble. The power rating, if done correctly, mainly relates to overall volume; but we do tend to go overboard with power to get proper feel at lower volumes. And, some of that depends on whether the individual player is going for distortion in the power amp circuit.

I have a little Class D Demeter 400W amp, which gets a lot of use; because it has the correct feel, more than adequate power for most gigs, and sounds fantastic. Plus, it is tiny.
View attachment 4599191

Short answer: 300W is more than adequate for most gigs. The real question is whether or not the specific amp has the correct feel; which relates to power in a somewhat complicated way, but does not simplify to tubes vs SS, IME. YMMV

Well Said,
I once had a 400 Watt Walter Woods MI 400 8. In that particular amplifier the preamp and power amp were analog, only the power supply was class D. It was very loud and felt just right. I could drive an SVT 8/10 cabinet and the sound was so
close to the real SVT that when I used it on big stages with an SVT Cabinet the difference between the two heads was there but not as noticeable as you might think. Just my take.