• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Tube power sections, what am I missing?

#101
After reading all of this and jogging my own memory I can boil it down to three things that are different about tube and SS power amps. (1) Tube compression: Hard to explain what you hear but, it adds a pleasing bloom to the notes. It also makes for a different "feel" than SS amps (2) Damping: (kinda like an electronic shock absorber) SS amps have a much higher damping factor than do tube amps. I think that this lack of damping is what gives tube amps that "heft" so many have mentioned. It also can produce a looser bottom end. This is why I think tube amps work best with sealed cabs. And, like tube compression, creates a different feel from SS amps (jmho) (3) Distortion: SS amps are clean right up to the point of their distortion threshold and then get ugly. Tube amps can be driven past their distortion threshold. The sound gets gritty and compressed but, not anything like the square wave SS amps produce and this sound has been successfully used in certain types of music for decades. SS amps just can't duplicate this sound. Overdriven pre-amp tubes just don't sound like overdriven power tubes. I personally have never needed this particular sound but, there are those who definitely worship it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: baxter_x
#103
baxter_x said:
Very interesting. Would you say that if you need clean and quick tone, go SS amp, and if you need some overdrive or bloomy tone go for an all tube amp?
Click to expand...
Nicely put. It all comes down to personal needs/preferences. I prefer nice and clean, and get any overdrive I may want through other means. I have had more than my share of all tube amps for over 45 years,now; tubes can sound very good but I have found them to be too muddy sounding when cranked up. For me, when used for recording, they sound great, not so much for gigging. Give me loud and clean; let the guitars do the distorting, I want to provide a solid bottom end to the music.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Passinwind, GreyBeard and baxter_x
#104
The best tone I've ever gotten at a gig was my 70's SVT head and coffin 8x10 run at volume: to the point where the power tubes and/or speakers were beginning to clip (overdrive). Heck, I liked the fridge 8x10 as well.

The all-tube factor was present to a small extent even at low volume -- however to me, the real magic happened at higher volume. That was one reason (along with bulk and weight) why I got away from the SVT: I might be willing to drag it around if it were equally magical at every volume level, but to me, it wasn't. I prefer lightweight solid state power sections pushed by tube or tube-emulating preamps (or pedals) because my desired level of overdrive distortion remains the same at any volume. I love that I can sound loud at quiet volume.

Some tube amp aficionados will bring a lower-powered tube amp such as a V4B to smaller gigs, so that they can get that power tube magic at lower volume. That's great, but I have no interest in dealing with the logistics of multiple tube amps: e.g. when playing a new room, do I bring V4B, SVT, or both just to be safe?

Anyway: I totally understand all-tube magic, but I'd rather go lightweight and get that magic from pedals (or whatever). It's not exactly the same, but it's more than good enough for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: basscapes and baxter_x
#106
baxter_x said:
Do you consider that pedals can perfectly emulate the SVT overdrive tone? If yes, what do you use?
Click to expand...

No, I'd never say perfectly. I own a number of pedals that sound tube-like. I have to mention Tech21 first because they were the pioneer of tube emulation, starting (for bass) with the Sans Amp Bass Driver DI. When I get the settings just right with the BDDI, it reminds me of power tubes. I like the Tech21 VT Bass a little better because the BDDI has some mid scoop (which emulates the Ultra-Lo switch on the SVT), but on the VT, you can get a wide range of scooped or not-scooped tones using the Character control. I also like the Tech21 Oxford pedal (now out of production)... it's an Orange emulator, apparently, but IMO delivers a wide variety of tube-like tones... and can deliver plenty of clank, which I love for hard rock.

For more modern tube tones I like the Darkglass B7K... I was going to list others but I don't want to get too far off-topic. It's also important to mention that the gear that works for me might not work as well for others, because of personal taste, technique... and gear: for example, a big part of my sound (when I feel like dragging it to the gig) is the Bergantino NV610: IMO it has the magic of the classic 8x10 in a smaller/lighter package. It's a sealed box, and mine is the older one without the tweeter, so it sounds very different from the usual modern bass cab that has ports (vents) and a tweeter. I will add here that many tube amp players do prefer sealed cabinets.

Some will always prefer all-tube, and I get it. For me, tube emulators are close enough, and have the advantages I mentioned in my previous post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Son of Wobble and Jeff Scott
#110
Interesting discussion; for me, weight is an issue, so I went with an SVPCL and Crown (1500W) power amp. I love the tone I get and the complete head only weighs 22lbs. The choice of tubes in the preamp have a LOT to do with the tone. So far I've experimented with EH, JJ, Tung-Sol, Mullard.. my favorite combo so far is JJ and Mullard, but I will be trying Genalex Gold Lions, as I just picked up a set.
Here's the rig: the cabinet is a (modified) Greenboy Fearful 15-6
Fearful.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: GreyBeard and Joe Ty
#112
getdown said:
Interesting discussion; for me, weight is an issue, so I went with an SVPCL and Crown (1500W) power amp. I love the tone I get and the complete head only weighs 22lbs. The choice of tubes in the preamp have a LOT to do with the tone. So far I've experimented with EH, JJ, Tung-Sol, Mullard.. my favorite combo so far is JJ and Mullard, but I will be trying Genalex Gold Lions, as I just picked up a set.
Here's the rig: the cabinet is a (modified) Greenboy Fearful 15-6
Fearful.jpg
Click to expand...

Nice gear. :thumbsup:

That's the fisrt I've even seen a thumb rest like that and located where it is.
Is that of your own doing?
 
#113
Personally, I think the difference in sound is subjective and only marginally discernible in a performance setting. I ran a 2000sAssuming you do your own load-in/load-out, the difference isn't worth it. I run 2 MarkBass cabs (2x10 & 1x15) with an EBS Microbass II and a Peavey IPR3000DSP with the crossovers on. I (and the band) like the sound, my back likes the light weight and judging from the bass driven booty shakin' on the dance floor the crowd must like it too.
 
#118
getdown said:
Yes, it's a piece of teak.. I'm criticized for modifying a deluxe American Jazz, but hey, it's the way I play!
BTW, here's a shot showing how lightweight the head is..
ampeg-crown.jpg
Click to expand...



Nice, I can see how that placement of the thumbrest would work well. Folks use the top of the p/u to do the same thing, why not make a bigger surface?

Are those all Fender Jazz basses?
 
#119
baxter_x said:
Very interesting. Would you say that if you need clean and quick tone, go SS amp, and if you need some overdrive or bloomy tone go for an all tube amp?
Click to expand...
Gross generalizations are just that...gross :D I can get clean and quick tone out of my tube amps (SVT running clean with plenty of headroom is the cleanest clean I've ever used), and I can get overdriven bloomy tone out of my SS gear. And I believe anyone saying something contrary either heard someone else on the internet say it or never tried it themselves.

BTW, having this doesn't hurt:

seamonkey said:
Even Ampeg makes pedals, go try one and hear for yourself
Ampeg says:
"New Bass Scrambler™ overdrive delivers true SVT grit, grind and sag"
Click to expand...
Obviously it's not the same as turning up your SVT to where the power tubes overdrive, but the sounds are remarkably similar, and much like an overdriven SVT, it's a lot more touch sensitive than most overdrive pedals, which I believe overdo the compression aspect of overdrive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: basscapes
#120
Dreamsinger said:
Personally, I think the difference in sound is subjective and only marginally discernible in a performance setting. I ran a 2000sAssuming you do your own load-in/load-out, the difference isn't worth it. I run 2 MarkBass cabs (2x10 & 1x15) with an EBS Microbass II and a Peavey IPR3000DSP with the crossovers on. I (and the band) like the sound, my back likes the light weight and judging from the bass driven booty shakin' on the dance floor the crowd must like it too.
Click to expand...
I agree that the difference in sound is so marginal that besides you and maybe the drummer, no one else will notice any difference. They are too busy worrying about their own sound. Especially when you add FOH into the mix.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back