My thoughts exactly re: bigger surface, gave me more scope in tone, as finger position changes tone..
The maple one is a custom built fretless (I built it) and the sunburst is a Fender deluxe Am. Jazz 4 string.
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Tube power sections, what am I missing?
- Thread starter jazzbass_5
- Start date
The maple one is a custom built fretless (I built it) and the sunburst is a Fender deluxe Am. Jazz 4 string.
When I rented an SVT 2 Pro just to give a try, that's the first thing that stroke me. I could get a super clean tone exactly like my SVT 4 Pro.
I then came to the conclusion the fact that an all tube amp can't be clean and hi-fi is just very wrong.
I just dug my 200s out from the corner of my shed where it has been stored for maybe 25 years. I gave it a nice vacuuming and it doesn't look half bad. It definitely needs a new grounded power cord and plug. I figure it needs new caps. Those tubes are the original ones from 1968, all made in the USA. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them are still good. I'll drop it off tomorrow at my tech (Charlie Powers at Guitar CPR) when I pickup my newly setup Sire v7 5 string.
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I want to add another option to this discussion:
Next to SS, hybrid and all tub amps, you could also use a small all tube amp, like an ampeg pf 20t, an Ashdown Little Bastard or an old Gem or something, and combine it with an extra class D power section to get more volume. This way, you have the tube pre- and power section and enough volume in a fairly light package.
Never tried it out, but I'm very curious about the result. I did try the little bastard once. And although the volume wouldn't be enough for me in a live sitution, I did like the tone a lot.
What do you guys think?
Next to SS, hybrid and all tub amps, you could also use a small all tube amp, like an ampeg pf 20t, an Ashdown Little Bastard or an old Gem or something, and combine it with an extra class D power section to get more volume. This way, you have the tube pre- and power section and enough volume in a fairly light package.
Never tried it out, but I'm very curious about the result. I did try the little bastard once. And although the volume wouldn't be enough for me in a live sitution, I did like the tone a lot.
What do you guys think?
I don't think you would have an all tube sound with your setup. Because in the end, the power section remains solid state and not with tubes.
If this would work, all big makers would have switched to this setup a long time ago
I know Mesa Boogie does a bit the same with the M-Pulse and Big block series by driving the SS power section with a tube preamp. It's called the Simul-State Technology.
Does it sound "tubey"? I don't know as to me a tubey sound is warm and fat, and an SS amp can do this.
Does it sound good? Yes it does.
If this would work, all big makers would have switched to this setup a long time ago
I know Mesa Boogie does a bit the same with the M-Pulse and Big block series by driving the SS power section with a tube preamp. It's called the Simul-State Technology.
Does it sound "tubey"? I don't know as to me a tubey sound is warm and fat, and an SS amp can do this.
Does it sound good? Yes it does.
I had the same idea. I have an Ashdown LB30. The thing is that tube amp needs to be connected to a cab. So the setup would be: bass in Ashdown connected to one cab, di out of ashdown to class d power amp (genz shuttle 3.0 for me) connected in another cab (or 2). That way you get tube preamp and power amp in one cab and tube preamp with class d power in the other.
make sure the speakers are all the same or the mixed cab police will ticket you<<☺
Now i am curious about the differencies in tone between the lb 30 power amp and the genz one. This should add to the never ending debate about the place where actual tube tone resides (i think that everything matters but I'm curious nonetheless) Please tell me.
Mr. Foxen
Commercial User
I think the DI out on those if from a transformer tap, so the power section is included. Easy enough to dummy load it at 30w too.
So I tried the setup at band practice last night. We play in a almost professional studio with bass trap everywhere giving a very flat sound in the room. We are not pro, we play for fun but our drummer has had a very successful career. We play rock/metal with some Tool influence. I have some tube distortion on my sound and use some effect and preamp pedals.
I plugged the LB30 in my GB focus 210 and the Shuttle in my Focus 115 giving me 30W in one speaker and 175W in the other so around 200W. I usually play with a rented Traynor YBA200 that I now plan to buy.
The setup did not deliver, I was very disapointed, it was not even close to what the YBA200 is giving me. At home, I was able to cop the sound of the 200 on the LB30 very well and it sounded nice but the volume was not there and the BASS was not there. It could just be that the LB30 does not deliver as much low end than the 200 but I think it is more about the bigger transformer and the fact that the shuttle power amp simply cannot deliver it. Other class d amp might maybe but this one can't. So overall it wasn't even a contest, I played one song with this setup and had to switch to the Traynor for the second, everybody in the band noticed the lack of presence and Low end.
the YBA200 is not considered a beefy amp by any means so i am surprised that LB30 could not deliver anything close. having said that running a 210 and 115 could also be part of the problem.
the YBA200 is not considered a beefy amp by any means so i am surprised that LB30 could not deliver anything close.
having said that running a 210 and 115 could also be part of the problem.[/QUOTE]
The LB30 has a bass boost switch that I did not engage because it looses all its headroom and power tubes distorts a low volume. The bass on the YBA200 is actually trimmed down on bass and the resonnance is set to 0 that equals maximum low end damping. No comment on the 210 + 115 specifically designed by Genz Benz Engineer agedhorse to work together.
having said that running a 210 and 115 could also be part of the problem.[/QUOTE]
The LB30 has a bass boost switch that I did not engage because it looses all its headroom and power tubes distorts a low volume. The bass on the YBA200 is actually trimmed down on bass and the resonnance is set to 0 that equals maximum low end damping. No comment on the 210 + 115 specifically designed by Genz Benz Engineer agedhorse to work together.
Amplifier design philosophies were different among manufacturers of the day. Where many manufacturers would cut and paste application designs from the RCA Tube Manual for a quick go to market strategy, others (like Sunn) would design the preamp and use off the shelf power amp designs such as Dynaco for the output stage. In the case of Ampeg, they would seek availability of surplus military tubes (often cheaper) and design around them for better cost margin.
The fact is, tubes were the only alternative back in the day. This said, the interesting serendipity of using tubes for guitar amplifiers came from the fact that in guitar amp combos where the tubes are mounted upside down in close proximity to the speaker, resulted in a mechanical feedback effect from the speaker to the tubes adding yet another dimension to the tactile feel from the amp to the player. One that modeling amplifier manufacturers tried to emulate with limited or no success over the years.
For us bass players on the other hand, clean power is what we seek. The fact that guitarists thrive from these intentional and unintentional effects of tube power should be of no consequence.
Bottom line:
Overdriven Ampeg SVT's, Sunn 2000S's Hiwatt 200's and other bass tube amps sound great when playing quarter notes.
If your playing requires any type of agility, go SS.
The power section of the buster 200 give me great power tube saturation. crunch and grunt for days. i once play a yba200 live with a metal band ,sweat sound but not powerfull power tube saturation like the buster.
Well I guess you better tell all these agile players like Stanley Clarke, Stefan Lessard, Tim LeFebvre, Tony Levin, Owen Biddle, Darryl Jones, Chris Squire, Dave Hope, Jon Reshard, plus a whole host of others (including me) how badly they're screwing up. My guess is they'll give you the same reaction Tina's giving you, except it won't look as cute.
if you're playing anything more than quarter notes then you're doing it wrong.
