Tube Watts = SS Watts ??

[seamonkey]

There is no compromise by Musicians who chose Solid-State amps.

Solid-State is chosen by musicians who have critical listening skills, Musicians who know what Solid-State can deliver, Musicians who know what works in a mix.

There are many more Solid-State amps in the world than tube amps for a good reason - Solid State delivers.

 

[jdh3000]

A reputable cab maker told me recently that 50W from an all tube amp head is the equivalent of about 300W from a SS head. That seemed odd to me. I'm not an EE but it seems to be that, measured at the output of the amp, Watts are Watts. Or was he perhaps meaning to refer to damping factor?

Yes, on

Watts is watts is watts is watts. Whether if it is tubes, SS or nuclear. Watts is watts.

Watts on second... I dunno is on third...

 

[sawzalot]

OMG if I see this topic again I'm gonna scream. It's been discussed to the point of ridiculousness on this forum. To which ridiculousness I will add the following:

Tube Watts are Watts that are sourced from suspicious overseas black markets where they make them from Banned Substances. Depending on the country of origin, some solid state watts perform better than others due to tighter manufacturing tolerances. As with most things in the music industry, USA-made Solid State Watts are more expensive than Watts made overseas. Indonesian Watts have been definitely getting better in quality, but Korean Watts are more in-demand and Japanese Watts are the most in-demand, behind USA-made Watts. If you can save for a USA-made Watt then you'll be happiest.

The question of which Watts are best for metal is another frequent topic, as well as whether Nitro or Polyester-finished Watts are more preferred, and whether Tort or Pearloid Watts are better for that "vintage look".

Of

 

[The Juice]

I can tell you point blank that my 100 watt all-Tube Ampeg V4-B absolutely crushes my hybrids and SS amps rated at 500-1000 watts.

Maybe it’s perception, but my band mates and most of the professional sound guys we work with also perceive the same thing.

Ive been eyeing on the V4b ever since I heard a bassist use it live. Sounded punchy and crunchy through the cab being used. What is your set up, and what kind of music do you play?

 

[Wasnex]

Since you’ve been on my radar today Wasnex, JJ Burnel back in the day played through a Hiwatt stack with pick/Rotos/Pbass for one of my favorite crunchy P tones that I’ve ever heard.


Do you think the flavors of overdriven tones are perhaps among the most subjective of preferences: one person’s
grating annoyance is another’s idea of blissful nastiness? And perhaps gear reputation hinges on how the artists who happened to use them used them?

Edit: this isn’t refuting your post, but maybe different OD’s accomplish different tasks. And it beats the tube vs. SS debate

.

I do think subjective preferences are very important, and the bass tone in the video is blissfully annoying/obnoxious . I can't say whether the tone is generated from preamp drive or output drive, or a combination of both. My guess is it's not purely output drive.

Also & IMHO, how desirable an amp's OD is depends on a lot more than just the basic tone. It's also the way the amp breaks over into OD. In my experiment with the DR103, the low notes broke over significantly before higher notes, and the transition was not very smooth or touch sensitive, so the OD took on kind of a bright, raspy farty quality. The GT120 on the other hand transitioned very gently into OD and the low notes and high notes started to break up at about the same power level. Unless you want to make obnoxious bright, raspy farty sounds, I am sure you would see how it would be a lot easier to play musically and expressively with the GT120. In some ways the DR103 is arguably a far superior amp, but it really depends upon what you want.

It's entirely possible the distortion characteristics of my DR103 are not typical. The amp is in good working order and sounds great. I also own a 76 DR201 and a Reeves 400. All three of these amps sound more alike than not. The DR201 is the hardest and punchiest of the bunch, and the DR103 and 400 sound most similar. I haven't duplicated the experiment with the DR201 or 400 as I don't wish to destroy my EVM18Bs.

The importance of subjective preferences is why I think people should stop arguing over tube VS solid state. Hiwatts sound and feel drastically different than SVTs, so saying both are tubey can get a bit confusing. People should try out different amps until they find what they are looking for. If you're like me, this will change with your mood and tonal goals, which is why I own so many (fabulous) amps. If you always like the same exact thing that's cool, but don't assume that whatever floats your boat is the perfect solution for everyone. Sometimes I am in the mood for an SVT, and sometimes I am not.

 

[The Juice]

There is no compromise by Musicians who chose Solid-State amps.

Solid-State is chosen by musicians who have critical listening skills, Musicians who know what Solid-State can deliver, Musicians who know what works in a mix.

There are many more Solid-State amps in the world than tube amps for a good reason - Solid State delivers.

I dont know about this whole, “ Solid-state is chosen by muscians who have have critical listening skills”, predisposition, but If you mean lighter weight, than yes solid state delivers; I love my Terror Bass 500 mark II, but the tone of my now defunct Traynor YBA 300 could not be beat. It just weighed a ton. Which is probably why tube bass amps aren't common because in wattage comparison solid state just cant be beat in the weight department, and the fact that the YBA 300 used 12 6L6 power tubes... Maintenance of tube amps is a bitch.

 

[Ric Vice]

If I were a guitar player where tubes vs solid state isn't as much a question of avaliable power, then I would most likely own a tube amplifier. As a bassist, it comes down

to weight and size vs rms power. In 1974 when everyone else was buying V4B's and SVT's I got my Ampeg Blue Diamond Check B-15N(C) it handled the Holiday Inn and Ramada lounges
where I was making pretty good dough. After that it was a Walter Woods MI-100-8 into that same Double Baffel Reflex cabinet that sounded better and went louder. 3 Walter Woods amps
later I still have my Electroacoustic Ultra High Power. with every new development in bass speaker cabinets it just sounds better and better. My addage "Keep to Small" if you can. Stages
keep shrinking.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

Watt you say?

 

[Bruiser Stone]

.

I do think subjective preferences are very important, and the bass tone in the video is blissfully annoying/obnoxious . I can't say whether the tone is generated from preamp drive or output drive, or a combination of both. My guess is it's not purely output drive.

Also & IMHO, how desirable an amp's OD is depends on a lot more than just the basic tone. It's also the way the amp breaks over into OD. In my experiment with the DR103, the low notes broke over significantly before higher notes, and the transition was not very smooth or touch sensitive, so the OD took on kind of a bright, raspy farty quality. The GT120 on the other hand transitioned very gently into OD and the low notes and high notes started to break up at about the same power level. Unless you want to make obnoxious bright, raspy farty sounds, I am sure you would see how it would be a lot easier to play musically and expressively with the GT120. In some ways the DR103 is arguably a far superior amp, but it really depends upon what you want.

It's entirely possible the distortion characteristics of my DR103 are not typical. The amp is in good working order and sounds great. I also own a 76 DR201 and a Reeves 400. All three of these amps sound more alike than not. The DR201 is the hardest and punchiest of the bunch, and the DR103 and 400 sound most similar. I haven't duplicated the experiment with the DR201 or 400 as I don't wish to destroy my EVM18Bs.

The importance of subjective preferences is why I think people should stop arguing over tube VS solid state. Hiwatts sound and feel drastically different than SVTs, so saying both are tubey can get a bit confusing. People should try out different amps until they find what they are looking for. If you're like me, this will change with your mood and tonal goals, which is why I own so many (fabulous) amps. If you always like the same exact thing that's cool, but don't assume that whatever floats your boat is the perfect solution for everyone. Sometimes I am in the mood for an SVT, and sometimes I am not.

Amen. It’s easy to slide down the slippery slope of object worship, becoming enamored with brand loyalty/tribalism, and lose sight of just making good music. To a degree, I’m guilty of it.

 

[dramatwist]

Amen. It’s easy to slide down the slippery slope of object worship, becoming enamored with brand loyalty/tribalism, and lose sight of just making good music. To a degree, I’m guilty of it.

...aren't we all?

 

[MobileHolmes]

I wonder, as a practical matter, how much wattage any of us are using most of the time. I have a 400RBiii at our practice space. It’s max rated power is only 150 watts, but it is crazy loud even when turned up nowhere near it’s max. I gig an MB500, and again, seem to not be using anywhere near 500 watts. I suppose that extra power is for extra headroom when you hit a low note hard and such, but I’m thinking that in most situations, I have hundreds of watts available and am really using a small fraction of that

 

[thetragichero]

i wonder, if class d or whatever improves drastically, if one day we'll be rating our amps in horsepower. i think it could make for some fun/weird conversions

 

[lowplaces]

Watt you say?

Wattsuhmattuh ?

 

[JimmyM]

I dont know about this whole, “ Solid-state is chosen by muscians who have have critical listening skills”, predisposition, but If you mean lighter weight, than yes solid state delivers; I love my Terror Bass 500 mark II, but the tone of my now defunct Traynor YBA 300 could not be beat. It just weighed a ton. Which is probably why tube bass amps aren't common because in wattage comparison solid state just cant be beat in the weight department, and the fact that the YBA 300 used 12 6L6 power tubes... Maintenance of tube amps is a bitch.

No it isn't. I find it pretty easy myself.

However, I think it's ridiculous to say musicians choose SS because they have critical listening skills and insinuate that tube amp lovers don't. Then again, seamonkey has been on a crusade to wipe tube amps off the face of the earth ever since he's been on here. It isn't working all that well.

 

[byacey]

Ss watts you feel in your ears, tube watts you fell in your bones

I think you're experiencing the effects of diathermy, not audio.

 

[byacey]

Amen. It’s easy to slide down the slippery slope of object worship, becoming enamored with brand loyalty/tribalism, and lose sight of just making good music. To a degree, I’m guilty of it.

Kind of reminds me of the vinyl record / CD argument. I remember one guy that would vehemently argue that vinyl sounded superior to CDs. As it happened, he couldn't tell the difference between the original vinyl record, and the same record including pops and crackle, transferred to a CD in a blind A/B test.

I wonder how many average Joe listeners in an audience care what sort of amplifier is being used to reproduce the bass, as long as it sounds like a bass and sits nicely in the mix?

 

[Iristone]

I've heard Class D has a higher THD level when approaching its rated output power. Might be a limiting factor, or just different amounts of subsonic frequencies filtered by the preamp.

 

[Passinwind]

I've heard Class D has a higher THD level when approaching its rated output power.

That just depends on what distortion level you write the spec for.

 

[red_rhino]

It's only blunt if you use it bluntly.

Can we take a blunt instrument to these threads?

 

[JimmyM]

Kind of reminds me of the vinyl record / CD argument. I remember one guy that would vehemently argue that vinyl sounded superior to CDs. As it happened, he couldn't tell the difference between the original vinyl record, and the same record including pops and crackle, transferred to a CD in a blind A/B test.

I wonder how many average Joe listeners in an audience care what sort of amplifier is being used to reproduce the bass, as long as it sounds like a bass and sits nicely in the mix?

I couldn't care less what average Joe listeners think. Either it passes my test or it sucks. Using average Joe listeners as your barometer leads to being average.