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tubes or transformer?

tubes or transformer?

  • tubes

    Votes: 14 12.7%

  • transformer

    Votes: 11 10.0%

  • both

    Votes: 47 42.7%

  • none

    Votes: 6 5.5%

  • carrots

    Votes: 32 29.1%
  • Total voters
    110
#161
So it seems like the guy in the video is grouping output transformers and power transformers together, because some of the "transformer-having" gear he is referencing has an output transformer and some doesn't.

He is also implying Class D stuff has "no transformers" of either type. Is this technically true? Sorry for the ignorance.
 
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#162
#163
rzero said:
He is also implying Class D stuff has "no transformers" of either type. Is this technically true? Sorry for the ignorance.
Click to expand...
No, it's not true (technically or otherwise). This is one reason why everything else he says is subject to scrutiny.

Class D amps must have a power transformer to galvanically isolate the power source from everything else. In class D amps with switchmode power supplies, the transformers are usually quite small because the operating frequency (which governs the size of the magnetics) is very high. The favorable side effect of the smaller size is naturally lower copper loses which improve performance.

There may also be additional transformers used in some class D amps, including isolation transformers for feedback and for driver coupling.
 
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#164
DJ Bebop said:
I was not a big tube user back in da day.
Dad's B-15, I had a Sunn Model T for a bit.
Didn't like the under powered B-15 for playing rock with half stacks and the Model T was so loud that I didn't get it into any tube grit, it was ran clean all the time.

That little WD box is da kine :)

I can get a vibe that reminds me of the sound I liked at low volume of the B-15 but with some power behind it without breaking up but if I want that, that power tube emulation gives me that sound with more consistency, and 800 watts to draw from.

:)
Click to expand...

Michedelic said:
Wait a minute, I’m confused…a 150 watt tube amp was too loud, but now you have a 800 watt(well, 400 into 8 ohms) transistor amp?
Click to expand...

Will_White said:
Ok, let's re-center this. The post I originally responded to was this.

How would you explain this. Are tube watts louder or might it be because solid state amp tone in general is more consistent from low to high volume.
Click to expand...

Biggest thing I think you're missing here is time. What was "so loud" for @DJ Bebop ~50 years ago is going to have very little relation to his volume needs today.

Couple that with the fact that the WD-800 has an amazingly effective volume control and can break up at low or high SPLs equally well, and I see no problem with the statement.
 
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#165
Wild Rice Chris said:
Biggest thing I think you're missing here is time. What was "so loud" for @DJ Bebop ~50 years ago is going to have very little relation to his volume needs today.

Couple that with the fact that the WD-800 has an amazingly effective volume control and can break up at low or high SPLs equally well, and I see no problem with the statement.
Click to expand...
Yup!
Plus with the 150-watt Model T I had more speaker area to transfer that 150 watts through. Either one or two 2x15s and or a 6x10 cabinet.

Right now I'm running my WD 800 @ 300 watts into a 1x12 cabinet, more power but a less sensitive speaker cabinet and less cone area to express that 300-watts through.

So in practice, maybe the 150-watt set up with 2x15 high sensitive cabinet may actually be louder than 300-watts into a single 12.

:)
 
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#166
Interesting discussion…one we should have every month for a period of years ;)

I’m always going to be a tube snob, but health issues and schlep circumstances dictate that I lose the SVT for a PF50T. That said, most of the time I bring my PF350 because it fits in a laptop bag with cords and stand. And while nobody ever complains about the 350 and I get pretty much the same sound as every other Ampeg amp I’ve owned, I can tell the difference and it’s fairly meaningful. It doesn’t make or break me as a player, but to think it isn’t noticeable on a gig is quite wrong.
 
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#167
JimmyM said:
Interesting discussion…one we should have every month for a period of years ;)

I’m always going to be a tube snob, but health issues and schlep circumstances dictate that I lose the SVT for a PF50T. That said, most of the time I bring my PF350 because it fits in a laptop bag with cords and stand. And while nobody ever complains about the 350 and I get pretty much the same sound as every other Ampeg amp I’ve owned, I can tell the difference and it’s fairly meaningful. It doesn’t make or break me as a player, but to think it isn’t noticeable on a gig is quite wrong.
Click to expand...
I get that as I've been playing more through my B-15 around the house here as of late. I can hear and feel a difference. But beyond me, like my wife, next door neighbor, people I'm performing for, maybe not so much, other than my personal joy on exhibit :)

Now my WD 800 fills that role. I don't have to worry about the ancient B-15 on gigs as this is almost my last tube amp, (the WD has a tube :)) and I can cop a B-15 tone with it. I don't necessarily know if that is the tone of Ampeg that most people refer to though as it's not an SVT tone imho.

We do have ones of those BA 115 combos that also gets that B-15 sound, to me.
 
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#168
One other thing…if you find your gear choices motivated solely by a perception that the audience doesn’t know or care anything about music, you should quit. Be motivated by what appeals to you and what you can afford. But I’ve seen a lot of bands allow their disdain for their audiences turn them into boring and not very good performers.
 
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#169
DJ Bebop said:
I get that as I've been playing more through my B-15 around the house here as of late. I can hear and feel a difference. But beyond me, like my wife, next door neighbor, people I'm performing for, maybe not so much, other than my personal joy on exhibit :)

Now my WD 800 fills that role. I don't have to worry about the ancient B-15 on gigs as this is almost my last tube amp, (the WD has a tube :)) and I can cop a B-15 tone with it, I don't necessarily know if that is the tone of Ampeg that most people refer to though as it's not an SVT tone imho.
Click to expand...
If you are happy with it, I’m happy for you.
 
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#171
JimmyM said:
One other thing…if you find your gear choices motivated solely by a perception that the audience doesn’t know or care anything about music, you should quit. Be motivated by what appeals to you and what you can afford. But I’ve seen a lot of bands allow their disdain for their audiences turn them into boring and not very good performers.
Click to expand...
Caring about the music and caring about the gear that is making it are two different things :)

I was never implying that, I was thinking more about, in the heat of the gig, with booties swinging, hips grinding, I don't think my audience members are thinking, "I wonder if that's a solid state or tube bass amp?" YMMV

:)
 
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#172
JimmyM said:
if you find your gear choices motivated solely by a perception that the audience doesn’t know or care anything about music, you should quit
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I really understand what you mean.
But I can not believe a single second the audience can hear the difference between a solid state or a tube amp. Or hear the difference between an Ampeg or Mesa amp.
 
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#173
I'm going to say that Jimmy's thoughts sort of flow together for me...the more inspiring my rig is for me, the better I play, and I do think audience members can hear/notice that difference. As for the exact type of amp/cab or their internal workings, my guess is that even very few experienced musicians could tell the difference between a well-played, appropriately blended bass line in busy mix.

I think more people might hear the difference between type of bass and style of the player...and most everyone will notice poor musicianship and/or uninspired playing.
 
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#174
Al Kraft said:
.the more inspiring my rig is for me, the better I play, and I do think audience members can hear/notice that difference.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with this. My rig is for me and improves my playing. And yes, the audience can hear the difference between an inspired player and uninspired player.

Al Kraft said:
and most everyone will notice poor musicianship and/or uninspired playing.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
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#175
Al Kraft said:
I'm going to say that Jimmy's thoughts sort of flow together for me...the more inspiring my rig is for me, the better I play, and I do think audience members can hear/notice that difference. As for the exact type of amp/cab or their internal workings, my guess is that even very few experienced musicians could tell the difference between a well-played, appropriately blended bass line in busy mix.

I think more people might hear the difference between type of bass and style of the player...and most everyone will notice poor musicianship and/or uninspired playing.
Click to expand...
Agreed :thumbsup:

That's why I said the people I'm performing for, maybe not so much, notice my choice of gear, other than my personal joy on exhibit :)
 
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#176
JimmyM said:
Interesting discussion…one we should have every month for a period of years ;)

I’m always going to be a tube snob, but health issues and schlep circumstances dictate that I lose the SVT for a PF50T. That said, most of the time I bring my PF350 because it fits in a laptop bag with cords and stand. And while nobody ever complains about the 350 and I get pretty much the same sound as every other Ampeg amp I’ve owned, I can tell the difference and it’s fairly meaningful. It doesn’t make or break me as a player, but to think it isn’t noticeable on a gig is quite wrong.
Click to expand...
What do you shlep the PF50T with, one of those gym bags type cases?

Never mind after using the search function I see you were using one of these at one time...

41aoqXV7PzL._AC_SY580_.jpg


:)
 
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