Tune in 5ths?

[micguy]

27429867[/URL], member: 196552"]Marginally, depends on technique, it's just the opposite direction as standard.

Try playing a low F (or whatever note is on your first fret on your lowest string) and an octave up. Let me know how that goes for you.

 

[Paul New]

...and mandolins, but the scale length of a fiddle or mandolin makes playing in 5ths much more manageable - the reaches aren't an issue with a short scale length. With a bass, the reaches are definitely an issue - you have to give up playing some combinations of notes that a 4th tuned bass gives you. If you never do double stops or chords, it's not that big of an issue, but for those of us who do a lot of double stops and/or chords, it's a big limitation.

Red Mitchell switched to 5ths specifically because of how it aided his double stop playing.

 

[micguy]

Red Mitchell switched to 5ths specifically because of how it aided his double stop playing.

If it works for him, great. I used to play guitar range instruments tuned in 5ths, so I do know the strengths and pitfalls, and it sure doesn’t work for me on bass.

 

[Will_White]

Try playing a low F (or whatever note is on your first fret on your lowest string) and an octave up. Let me know how that goes for you.

Any tuning has its limitations, you can't hit a high F with a standard tuned fender 4 string, but for that specific note (Db/Ab) I'd shift to the 6th fret one string up if it came up.

 

[Papageno]

Oscar Pettiford played upright tuned in 5ths, because someone gave him a cello to noodle on when he was ill ad bed-ridden, and it stuck. He did some very creative things with it.

I have a 10 string Chapman Stick (that I can't really play TBH), which conceptually is a Regular 5 string bass going in one direction and a left handed 5 string cello tuned in 5ths going in the opposite direction. It's a mind bender.

No, Oscar Pettiford played his double bass tunes un 4ths, and when he started playing cello, he tuned the cello in 4ths. See here.

As far as I knows the first jazz DB player to tune is bass in 5ths was Red Mitchell.

There is thread in TB entirely dedicated to 5ths tuning.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Doesn't Fripp's New Standard Tuning have one non-fifth interval between adjacent strings...istr between 1st and 2nd? I vaguely remember it being C G D A E G.

There's a NST for bass too, CGDA.

 

[Bob_Ross]

There's a NST for bass too, CGDA.

aka 'cello 8vb. ::::

I have a fretless 5-string currently tuned EADGC that I keep telling myself would sound awesome tuned CGDAE, but as yet haven't gotten around to trying it that way.

 

[devnulljp]

No, Oscar Pettiford played his double bass tunes un 4ths, and when he started playing cello, he tuned the cello in 4ths. See here.
As far as I knows the first jazz DB player to tune is bass in 5ths was Red Mitchell.

You're right! I had that story backwards all these years.
Now I want to try cello in 4ths.

 

[Paul New]

If it works for him, great. I used to play guitar range instruments tuned in 5ths, so I do know the strengths and pitfalls, and it sure doesn’t work for me on bass.

It doesn't work for me either. Red took only about a week to make the switch.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...uning+in+Fifths+and+the+Walking+Bass+Line.pdf

 

[Paul New]

There's a NST for bass too, CGDA.

T

Doesn't Fripp's New Standard Tuning have one non-fifth interval between adjacent strings...istr between 1st and 2nd? I vaguely remember it being C G D A E G.

That's the most common way. The problem is finding a string gauge that will tune all the way up to that B.

 

[Brayden Wise]

It doesn't work for me either. Red took only about a week to make the switch.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...uning+in+Fifths+and+the+Walking+Bass+Line.pdf

I had a read of this paper last week and took a dive into some of Red's work, specifically an album with Barney Kessel called Two Way Conversation and paid attention to what Bright was talking about with the intervallic work and such. It really informed some changes I made in my next practice session in the kinds of shapes I was looking at on the fingerboard.

That's an added bonus of mucking with tunings, IMO - you get to unlock some weird quirks and hacks. I was mucking about at a jam a few weeks ago and the guitarist hauled out Superstition in E-flat. I was on a standard-tuned 4-string, took a half-second to detune E to E-flat (so now running Eb-A-D-G), and proceeded to play the rest of the tune. What an absolute riot trying to conceive of the pattern with all the intervals in weird spots, but also a great brain exercise.

 

[Les Fret]

T
The problem is finding a string gauge that will tune all the way up to that B.

Unfortunately there isn’t a guitar string that tunes to a high B. High A is possible with an expensive custom made string. But it breaks easily, especially with bending.

As for 5ths tuning. Just tune your regular EADG to CGDA and play nothing else for a few weeks. If you really like it find the appropriate gauges..

You have to make more jumps/shifting and stretches (a cello has a much smaller scale, like a guitar) and use other chords and voicing in 5ths tuning but it can yield new inspiration. So I use it sometimes as an open tuning when playing solo pieces, but never as my standard tuning.

 

[Paul New]

Unfortunately there isn’t a guitar string that tunes to a high B. High A is possible with an expensive custom made string. But it breaks easily, especially with bending.

As for 5ths tuning. Just tune your regular EADG to CGDA and play nothing else for a few weeks. If you really like it find the appropriate gauges..

You have to make more jumps/shifting and stretches (a cello has a much smaller scale, like a guitar) and use other chords and voicing in 5ths tuning but it can yield new inspiration. So I use it sometimes as an open tuning when playing solo pieces, but never as my standard tuning.

That’s why most people tune to B, and that’s what Stringjoy’s custom set is gauged for. You don’t use the tuning as your regular tuning, I don’t either, but Robert Fripp does and he has quite a few students who play strictly New Standard tuning.

As for me, my 5ths tuning is limited to mandolin and tenor banjo.

 

[Les Fret]

That’s why most people tune to B, and that’s what Stringjoy’s custom set is gauged for. You don’t use the tuning as your regular tuning, I don’t either, but Robert Fripp does and he has quite a few students who play strictly New Standard tuning.

As for me, my 5ths tuning is limited to mandolin and tenor banjo.

I know, I am a big Crimson fan. He tunes the highest string to G because there is no appropriate string for an all fifths tuning. Which makes the tuning less logical.

The term New standard tuning was a bit optimistic though. By no means it has become standard and it probably never will.

 

[Watchootognbout]

When I tuned my sixer to fifths I knew that it would be next to impossible to base it on B in fifths.
The highest strings would have to be very thin.
So I dropped the low B to A.
The E would stay the same.
I used the other strings from a seven string set for the higher strings.

 

[Paul New]

I know, I am a big Crimson fan. He tunes the highest string to G because there is no appropriate string for an all fifths tuning. Which makes the tuning less logical.

The term New standard tuning was a bit optimistic though. By no means it has become standard and it probably never will.

No, it never will. Works great for Fripp, but probably anything would.

But I am a fan of P4 tuning, and that’s how my guitars are tuned.

 

[Cal03]

When I tuned my sixer to fifths I knew that it would be next to impossible to base it on B in fifths.
The highest strings would have to be very thin.
So I dropped the low B to A.
The E would stay the same.
I used the other strings from a seven string set for the higher strings.

I used to tune my sixer in fifths from C1 to B3. I used a Kalium 0.015" plain bass string for the high B, and the string held up fine the whole time. That said I've retuned my sixer back to standard, the range was too much.

But I am a fan of P4 tuning, and that’s how my guitars are tuned.

I also like P4 on guitars, I just can't get used to the major 3rd between the G and B.