Tune in 5ths?

[Flatwound]

When I was a kid, I took tenor banjo (Dixieland style) lessons. I’ve thought of tuning a bass CGDA, but I haven’t done it. I’ve been toying with the idea of getting one of Eastwood’s tenor guitars, so I could use my CGDA banjo chords.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Where's @CaseyVancouver ?

 

[chuck3]

Red Mitchell was famous for switching to fifths tuning.

"Mitchell used standard tuning during the 1950s and for the first half of the 1960s, and produced sound similar to his professional jazz bass peers.[6]However, "in 1966 he switched to cello tuning on his bass (C-G-D-A, an octave below the cello, instead of the standard E-A-D-G). At the same time, he began adjusting the tone controls of his amplifier to create a soft, unfocused sound in the lowest notes and to emphasize the upper harmonics in higher notes. The result was an airy tone quality that sounded gentle, not muscular. This airy tone and his frequent habit of strumming the strings with his right thumb contributed greatly to his unusual style."[6]"

My other instrument (besides bass guitar and upright bass) is mandolin, so I am used to fifths tuning - but on a much shorter scale instrument! I've toyed with the idea of fifths tuning on bass but there are going to be some mighty long reaches involved ...

 

[CaseyVancouver]

I play my upright in 5ths for classical only when there is a lot of playing below E.
Shifting is just fine. The upright bass sounds fantastic in 5ths for classical arco.
I do it in the interest of avoiding a C extension, and there is less top pressure in 5ths than with a C extension.

For jazz I have an upright I prefer that is tuned in 4ths. It just feels right compared to 5ths playing jazz.
There is no problem going back forth, 4ths to 5ths tuning instruments. For myself anyways.

The issue for me about 5ths on electric bass is it just does not feel right, for myself.
The ingrained visual patterns I have logged over 50 years suck on a 5ths tuned electric.
That’s me. Lots of guys love it.

For electric bass I will always choose a fretted or fretless bass tuned in 4ths.
For jazz on upright 4ths tuning preferred. For classical upright 4ths tuning is fine, 5ths tuning preferred if the music goes below E a lot. It only takes about 40 minutes to switch the bass over with new strings.

I also dabble in violin and viola which are both in 5ths.
Cello too, the tuning is the same as viola. There is no issue going from one instrument to another in various tuning. The clefs can be tricky reading lol.

Symphony orchestra instruments are all in 5ths, excepting upright.
Even then they use a C extension to get the low notes so they are not really in 4ths anymore

I know this is the bass guitar side of things, but here are my friends Joel and Don playing.
Joel is in 5ths and Don on piano is also a fantastic bass player.

 

[2thAche]

2 string slide bass tuned in 5ths. Some day we'll cover Morphine at a gig and make maybe 2 dudes happy

 

[logdrum]

I know a bass player (not me!) that tunes his bass guitar in 5ths instead of fourths. I would think it would make a bass harder to play because there would be a lot more shifting up and down the neck as opposed to playing across the neck.

Does anyone here tune their bass in 5ths?

I do - my oldest electric bass is tuned in 5ths again. MY smaller upright is as well and I started to tune my old telecaster in 4ths all the way EADGCF, I also play a Charlie Hunter type Hybrid with effectively a short scale bass for the bottom 3 strings and it is tuned up to G.

For 5ths tuning. I use the Rabbath method of "fingering". Pivot method (like 6 frets per position and the whole 24 fretboard is effectively 5 positions only

Am I confused. Not really. I play alto Eb and Bb instruments (alto, tenor and Baritone Sax + soprano) Years of doing it. I can read a concert chart and transpose it to Bb or Eb or read Eb and transpose to concert or Bb or concert. Like anything else, no genius involved, constant rinse / repeat and a bit of masochism. Maybe deep down show-off as well but really after the initial wowness from other musicians, it wears off. You still need to groove and embody musicianship - easier said than done and something one must keep up.

Brushy One String from Jamaica tunes in 18th - 20ths -- effectively.

Again no big deal, just like your Tinder or dating preferences.

 

[Slevage]

Some classical bassist tune in fifths.
I’ve heard it blends better with all the other string instruments in the orchestra.
Probably more information on the DB side.

Check out some YouTube videos with Red Mitchell and Clark Terry for some top notch jazz. Red’s bass is likely tuned in fifths for most recordings/videos.

 

[Bob_Ross]

I have a 10 string Chapman Stick (that I can't really play TBH), which conceptually is a Regular 5 string bass going in one direction and a left handed 5 string cello tuned in 5ths going in the opposite direction. It's a mind bender.

The trick to wrapping your head around Chapman's "reciprocal inverted fifths" (or whatever it is he calls that Stick tuning) is to not think about it any differently than you do a normally-tuned bass guitar. The notes all appear in the same positions relative to one another; it's just that in the Stick tuning, you get all these unexpected octave transpositions in the middle of a line if you finger it exactly as you would on a bass tuned in fourths.

I mean, yeah, if you wanted to play something exactly as it sounds on a normally-tuned bass on that Stick you have to consider a whole lot of other things. But if you want to find a way to inject some creativity and surprise into your tried&true licks, reciprocal inverted fifths is a great way to break out of old habits without having to learn a whole new tuning.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Haha! It can appear complicated but really it is just notes and music.

My mind was blown the moment I realized the violin I was playing was tuned in a mirror image of electric bass notes.
All the notes on a violin, in 5ths, are a mirror image of electric bass notes, in 4ths.
But they are all still just notes for music.

 

[BarfanyShart]

I switched to fifths tuning a few years ago. For DB, you already shift a bunch, so you hardly notice a difference, and with classical repetoire as many things work better as worse. With BG, it's weirdly a much bigger difference. I play short scale, the Ibanez EHB 1005SMS is an awesome fit for the tuning. I absolutely would not play fifths BG if I was in a covers band because A LOT of classic bass lines become too difficult, and some unplayable. I write and play my own stuff on BG that is very chordal and rhythm-guitar inspired, and the fifths bass is pretty much my dream instrument for that application.

 

[hieronymous]

At some point I tuned my Alembic Exploiter (32" scale) with piccolo strings and tuned it in 5ths. I had been playing mandolin a little bit, not seriously but I enjoyed the different relationship between the strings, and it was very interesting on bass. I was into Magma and pretty sure I was aware that many of their bassists tuned to 5ths, though I don't remember trying to figure anything out, or at least not seriously. I did record at least one piece with it - the "air bass" parts (there's the Magma influence" are the Exploiter, the "earth bass" is my Rickenbacker 4001 tuned standard. The opening riff just suggested itself with the tuning.



I ended up selling the Exploiter a few years later, and haven't tuned a bass that way again.

 

[Cal03]

I play in fifths a lot, in fact 3 out of my 4 BG's are tuned in fifths! It's a lot of fun but definitely requires some work to get used to. The main advantages I see are more range across less strings and lots of chording potential. Fifths tuning on a 4 string gives you more range than fourths on fiver while 5ths on a fiver has nearly the same range as fourths on a 7 string. Spread triads are almost too easy and make for easy simple comping.

Admittedly the extra shifting can be a major hassle, especially on a 34" scale instrument. I also find myself relying much more on the open strings than in fourths, which can make distant keys quite difficult.

I also have 3 ukuleles tuned in fifths as faux mandolins. The scale length is no longer an issue and it is a major improvement for playing melodies.

And yes, please check out the club if you haven't already, we've covered a lot of these topics in detail.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I do, on double bass. Been at it for about six months. Takes a minute to get used to, for sure, and there are definitely pros and cons, especially depending on the style(s) you play.

For bass guitar, I could see where the extra shifting could be a pain. Conceptually, it would probably (generally) be okay, it’s more re-thinking your intervals in the scope of the line you’re playing (pivoting for the stretch instead of shifts, per se, so you can cover five frets without too much fuss to get a perfect 4th on one string).

The next month for me is dedicated to relearning a bunch of Steely Dan bass parts for a cover gig I’m doing - we’ll see how muscle memory plays into this one…

If it's from C, that's "New Standard Turning" as approved by Robert Fripp, and I tried it for a while. It makes some things easier, some things harder unless you like moving your hand more. It gives you extended range, but a custom set of strings.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Oscar Pettiford played upright tuned in 5ths, because someone gave him a cello to noodle on when he was ill ad bed-ridden, and it stuck. He did some very creative things with it.

I'm baffled by how you might play cello when in bed.

 

[Gruff]

Does anyone here tune their bass in 5ths?

I also play mandocello and viola and often play wrong notes through confusing A and G strings from the similar tuning - EADG and CGDA. So I was motivated to tune my basses in fifths. I used the "quick and dirty" option that @Will_White mentioned. It only took an hour or two to be competent on bass lines that are root-5 with a few runs - bluegrass and so on. But I couldn't play scales or more complex lines without multiple hand shifts and I struggled to play smoothly. I have smallish hands which doesn't help. I kept at it for a few weeks, but went back to tuning in fourths.

 

[boombloom]

Years ago I picked up a mandocello and played some bass parts on it. It's tuned in fifths like a cello. Sounded cool, but I've stuck with fourths on my electrics and upright.

 

[Jogobass]

I'm very pattern oriented. Even detuning just the E to D or B to A gives me a headache and only works for bass parts that I have time to study as opposed to improvised parts. With fifths tuning I would have to relearn all the shapes that I have become accustomed to over many years. With one finger per fret you can play a fourth and then skip to the next string. With 5ths you have to add two more notes per string before you are at the next string. That feels very unintuitive on a bass, for me.

 

[devnulljp]

I'm baffled by how you might play cello when in bed.

Lying down, playing it like an upright bass. Easier than playing a full size standup while lying in bed I guess.

 

[Ostie]

I play mandolin family instruments that are tuned in fifths. Mostly mandolin tuned GDAE. I’ve thought about retuning my bass, but never have.

I also play mandola and mandocello, but the easiest is octave mandolin, because it’s tuned GDAE, but an octave lower than mandolin.

 

[Paul New]

Red Mitchell was famous for switching to fifths tuning.

"Mitchell used standard tuning during the 1950s and for the first half of the 1960s, and produced sound similar to his professional jazz bass peers.[6]However, "in 1966 he switched to cello tuning on his bass (C-G-D-A, an octave below the cello, instead of the standard E-A-D-G). At the same time, he began adjusting the tone controls of his amplifier to create a soft, unfocused sound in the lowest notes and to emphasize the upper harmonics in higher notes. The result was an airy tone quality that sounded gentle, not muscular. This airy tone and his frequent habit of strumming the strings with his right thumb contributed greatly to his unusual style."[6]"

My other instrument (besides bass guitar and upright bass) is mandolin, so I am used to fifths tuning - but on a much shorter scale instrument! I've toyed with the idea of fifths tuning on bass but there are going to be some mighty long reaches involved ...

I play mandolin too, and have toyed with Robert Fripp's "new standard" tuning on guitar.

But Red is the man. Thomastic makes a Red Mitchell set of Spirocores gauged for 5ths tuning.