Hmm … I think it's telling that they claim the crossovers are "active / passive", when we already know that the sub crossover is passive. I will remain suspicious until I can actually look inside the sub unit as well as the tower.
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Turbosound IP2000 Review
- Thread starter musicman7722
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Hmm … I think it's telling that they claim the crossovers are "active / passive", when we already know that the sub crossover is passive. I will remain suspicious until I can actually look inside the sub unit as well as the tower.
Going back to the speaker placement. If you use them behind you instead of in front you may also have a "more me" issue. The reason we use monitors is so we can her ourselves over others.
I do know a friends band who recently bought one of the more exp. Bose sticks (isn't that an oxymoron, more expensive Bose
, anyway he places it behind the band the band near the drummer. I think they just run vocals and guitar through it but he says it does the job. I have not heard it myself.
In closing I have run my IP's with one out front and one off to stage right behind the guitar player. This was due the proximity of seating tables to the band area. Worked all right but it was a small room.
I do know a friends band who recently bought one of the more exp. Bose sticks (isn't that an oxymoron, more expensive Bose
, anyway he places it behind the band the band near the drummer. I think they just run vocals and guitar through it but he says it does the job. I have not heard it myself.In closing I have run my IP's with one out front and one off to stage right behind the guitar player. This was due the proximity of seating tables to the band area. Worked all right but it was a small room.
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Can you share your input settings on your IP? I would like to start comparing others settings. I am running my master at +6 and this last gig I ran the channel input at +3. I set my sub at -3 as I have external subs. I also dipped the mids -3 to try clear up some of the brightness. My board EQ is set relatively flat.
Can you share your input settings on your IP? I would like to start comparing others settings. I am running my master at +6 and this last gig I ran the channel input at +3. I set my sub at -3 as I have external subs. I also dipped the mids -3 to try clear up some of the brightness. My board EQ is set relatively flat.
Going back to the speaker placement. If you use them behind you instead of in front you may also have a "more me" issue. The reason we use monitors is so we can her ourselves over others.
I do know a friends band who recently bought one of the more exp. Bose sticks (isn't that an oxymoron, more expensive Bose
In closing I have run my IP's with one out front and one off to stage right behind the guitar player. This was due the proximity of seating tables to the band area. Worked all right but it was a small room.
The Bose concept was for each musician and vocalist to have their own L1. Of course the bass player will want extra subs.
Bose uses some anti-feedback circuitry that works pretty well. Most of the time I used L1s, I turned all the processing off and used them in front of the band, but on a couple of occasions I set them up behind the vocalist and was surprised by how well they worked. The biggest limitation was they are not loud enough and the HF dispersion was pretty narrow with the series 1 L1s.
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Hmmmm. The way I like to hear the monitors is so that I can hear a more accurate representation of what the audience is hearing and if I'm louder in the mix then I'll tend to sing/play too quietly. Not enough musicians listen for the overall mix and focus too much only on what they're playing.
That would truly make you unique in that regards. Occasionally I have a band tell me they want the monitor mix or mixes to be identical to the front mix so they can blend themselves. I usually talk them out of it.
Never had anybody tell me that... Most say they want to hear V and kick most of all in floors they can usually hear enough of everybody else without going deaf, depending on stage footprint....
Everybody but V1: back Vs, touch of this & that, but NOT V1.... I can hear his damn floor from here...
V1: I need JUST V1, with a touch of V1....no, more than that..I said MORE... MOOOOOOOAR!
V1: I need a tambourine mic too
- Hell no.
Everybody but V1: back Vs, touch of this & that, but NOT V1.... I can hear his damn floor from here...
V1: I need JUST V1, with a touch of V1....no, more than that..I said MORE... MOOOOOOOAR!
V1: I need a tambourine mic too
- Hell no.
IMHO, this is not done by feeding exactly the same mix to you and the audience.
While performing, most people want to hear themselves 6-10dB hotter than everyone else in the mix. It's a compromise when multiple people share a mix because they have to be mixed at equal loudness for it to be fair. If singers don't get the desired 6-10dB, it's a challenge to not over sing and blow their voice out. This is a natural response when one can't hear well enough.
IMHO a better solution is to give each singer a personalized mix so they can hear comfortably. A person with your preferences would want a well balance mix of the entire band, but your vocal and instrument channels should still be mixed a bit hot so you do not struggle to hear. As an audio tech, I would allow you to call the levels you need.
A balanced monitor mix should take into account the acoustic levels on stage as well. In other words, if the guitar and drums are already loud enough, they should not be added to the monitor where they can clutter up the mix unnecessarily. Having the sounds come from different directions (stereo versus mono) makes it easier to distinguish between different sound sources.
The main mix is balanced independently off all the monitor mixes, so giving the performers what they need does not limit the FOH mix in any way.
The 6-10dB rule applies to instrumentalists as well, and is why volume wars are fairly common. In order to prevent volume wars, musicians frequently have to accept that it's not possible to hear themselves as well as they want. Unfortunately, often one or two band members are greedy and have to have their 6-10dB. One solution to the problem is distance. SPL drops off at a rate of 6dB with each doubling of distance. Discretion and judgment is necessary because spreading the band out too much tends to cause other problems.
I'm not one of them and I'm not alone either. There may be more of the 'more me' types out there, but I'm onstage for the sound of the band and not 'just me'. Pretty selfish really to care more about ones own sound than the band as a whole and I get a much better sense of how I'm fitting in a mix when I'm hearing the same balance the audience is. Allows me to get louder without worrying about being too loud, and it allows me to play/sing a subtle quiet passage without becoming inaudible.
I did pro sound for about 20 years and never came across a single vocalist who did not appreciate "more me." I won't argue though since I haven't had the opportunity to mix you. I will say this: perceptions are funny...people think the mix is balanced, but it is not.
I believe we perceive and process sound different when we are making the sound. Most people can hammer nails without being bothered, but if someone else is hammering nearby it seems brutally loud. I believe the same effect occurs when we sing or play an instrument...because we are making the sound, it is not perceived as loud as it actually is.
I totally accept that working without "more me" is possible, as it is sometimes necessary for vocalist to work without monitors. This can be a very challenging situation for a vocalist who has never done it before.
IMHO, if one is a professional musician, the point of performing should be to provide a service to the audience; not self gratification. So, I totally agree that people should consider how their stage level effects everyone else. As a pro bass player, I typically found it impossible to get my 6-10dB. Bass is especially challenging in this respect because low frequencies propagate in all directions.
It's generally not difficult or problematic to give a vocalist their 6-10 unless the system is on the verge of feedback, because sound is fairly directional at the relevant frequencies. In other words you can aim the sound exactly where you need it, at the vocalist.
Or to put it another way, derive self gratification from knowing you've done the best you could to make your bandmates sound their best, since that is also how you yourself will sound your best.
If the band does, and sounds its best, then the audience and club owner are also being well served.
My ex and I always used the exact same mix in both of our stage monitors because it allowed us to know exactly what was going on balance-wise. Neither one of us preferred to be louder in the mix because, for one it's a inaccurate picture of what's actually going on, and more importantly, it obscures what the other vocalist is doing.
I have GAS again
I had been thinking it might be time to upgrade to the ip3000. It is getting really good reviews. However the price went up to $2000 and the sub weighs in at 91 pounds.
My rational was due to I am getting a lot more band jobs that could use more head room.
I thought about this and decided I should get another pair of ip2000's. I was on Sweetwater today and dang if they aren't on sale for $750.00.
I contacted my sales guy to see if there is a pair left with my name on them. Whoo hoo.
I had been thinking it might be time to upgrade to the ip3000. It is getting really good reviews. However the price went up to $2000 and the sub weighs in at 91 pounds.
My rational was due to I am getting a lot more band jobs that could use more head room.
I thought about this and decided I should get another pair of ip2000's. I was on Sweetwater today and dang if they aren't on sale for $750.00.
I contacted my sales guy to see if there is a pair left with my name on them. Whoo hoo.
Made it through our first gig w/ the ip2000. All in all it went well. Used the Soundcraft Ui as the digital mixer. We did have some of the "cracking" sound that seems to be a common issue. We set the iP level at 0.0db, set main volume on the mixer to 0.0db, tried to keep mix channels about the same and used the gain setting to adjust volumes. All in all felt we had some headroom, but need to explore ways to reduce potential for the "cracking" sound. Both pieces together (Soundcraft and Turbosound) were a pretty good setup given I am a sound engineering noob.
Wow, well said, I totally agree with you! One needs to be satisfied to hear the stage level as a total mix and not just themselves! On our next gig, I plan on having the IP's behind us, as stage room with allow.... This isn't until April 6th, and well let you all know how it went, and what adjustment I had to make....
Now getting back the subject at hand.
Fenwickbacker, if it isn't to late I would return them. The new ones a ip2000 v2. They added reverb and probably did some work to fix the crackle issue, to my ears they sound better with a mike and cd. I have a gig this weekend so I will report back.
Fenwickbacker, if it isn't to late I would return them. The new ones a ip2000 v2. They added reverb and probably did some work to fix the crackle issue, to my ears they sound better with a mike and cd. I have a gig this weekend so I will report back.
