Two Gibson Sidewinder "Mudbucker" Bass / Pickup Pairing

[DOOMonkee]

Understandably, I know most people would never want this, however I believe with the right impedance (custom wound) there's potential for a cool, but limited, sound out of this.

My question: has anyone ever done this with regular vintage (30k ohm)/modern (DiMarzio or 1k ohm Gibson) sidewinders? I understand that with vintage 30k pickups, the two in parallel would be so much low end and low mids that it would probably unusable for most people, and I don't even know if an amp could handle the output well.

I'm just curious since I've never seen this other than the combo of a "mudbucker" and P bass pickup with two outputs a la Billy Sheehan style. Again, understandably I know most people would have no interest in this, I'm not looking for a bass that does everything but for a potential ultra-low end in the realm of doom metal. With two "mudbuckers", you would have a bridge pickup that isn't weak, so in parallel you'd have a noticeable influence. I'm even more interested in what would happen if you put a push-pull for a series, although that's more for play than for actual use because the low end would most definitely be too much and I don't even know if an amp could safely handle this.

I don't mind anyone saying this is a stupid idea, I'd just like to have a reason/experience as to what this would do besides adding more low end (i.e. blow an amp up if the two pickups were in series or even in parallel, failure to reproduce any usable low end, etc.). I don't care if the sound is one-dimensional, I'm genuinely curious if anyone has any experience because I've been pretty happy with the short-scale, tape wounds, zero tone, and vintage spec "mudbucker" sound. The bass is not expensive, so I don't mind experimenting/routing the body, I'm just here to get some feedback. Thanks in advance!

[Edit] I meant to put this in Pickups/Electronics, and I just found a thread addressing this:
Dual mudbuckers?

I'll add an emphasis to prevent duplicates: has anyone put the two in series, are there any projects where someone has successfully blended this pickup with another to add "whomp" and/or articulation, and has anyone tried a BEAD string config using one of these pickups? I love this pickup for what it can do, just interested in exploring options if there are any good projects with it.

 

[Bass V]

it's a ''stupid idea'' which I wish was as standard as the J and P. full stop.
full throttle; toss a third in the middle and add a deaf eddie magic knob*, if an amp can't handle it then let the heads roll lol the whole purpose of these PUs is to lift buildings off their foundations. but a trick to getting a wider range of tones is simply bypass the original circuitry, the highs will be prominent and with the parallel etc assortment included a whole smorgasbord of usable tones would be available. that modded Epi video proves how good just a basic effort is.
* Deaf Eddie - Guitar Whacko!

 

[lug]

There is a practical reason this isn't seen. The poll pieces on a mudbucker or model 1 only measure about 2" from outside to outside poll. This works up against the neck but as you go toward the bride and the strings widen, you may get loss on the outer strings. If you want to do something like this, I'd suggest trying to find a blade style pup with similar specs to try it with.

 

[frublazej]

For P/J lovers it's stupid idea, but I know what You feel bro.

If you're building or make custom bass - go for it or You can always counteract sound of neck pup with different pup eg. single in the bridge or buy custom mud-bucker with 4 wires (you can change wiring scheme later, and eg. convert bucker in the bridge to single or put it in series/parallel with neck pup).

You can also take out screws of mud-bucker - it's always give some clarity, I have done this to many HB in my gibson/tokai guitars.

MudB in the middle is also great sounding pup thoo, with that double bass sound characteristic:


If You like this kind of dubby/Jah Wobble/jazz/double bass/woody/avant-garde sound - go for it.


Only stupid thing is caring what other people say - they have difffrent needs.

 

[redstrand]

Have Curtis Novak make a set that fits your string spacing, go for it. More options for more bass tone!

 

[DOOMonkee]

Wow, you guys are phenomenal! These suggestions are great! That middle position is pretty nice sounding, and looks like a great candidate for a future build. Eventually I may play with adding a second near the bridge, and hopefully try one in the middle to get a better idea of how that compares. Good to hear some info on string spacing too, I'm going to make a mod to address this and I'm noting this in the future if I go with Curtis since he might have some suggestions on balancing two with custom impedance/also providing proper spacing.

For now, I am gelling some of these suggestions into pickup mods before I go too crazy.

The current setup: Artec pickup, D'Addario tapewounds, and a Hipshot Supertone bridge. Everything was good to go out of the box with the Artec, no mods needed compared to others' experiences.

Planned mod: remove poles, replace with steel rail, and replace magnets with neodymium.

I can try to record a demo of before and after if it is of interest. For most pickups it's best to hear the full range, but let's be real, I don't think fans of these pickups care about the g string clarity. If replacing the magnet does something for clarity, I'll have that demo ready, but I think "Hand of Doom" by Black Sabbath is really where these pickups make sense. Electronics would remain constant, with demos of tone at 100%, 50%, and 0% (where I think this bass doesn't get enough credit).

 

[Bass V]

the pole alignment issue was addressed years back with a fun mod where a hex key was laid along side the poles to make a bar magnet. I have a photo archived somewhere but it worked for him.
any descriptive audio would be of interest.

 

[DOOMonkee]

the pole alignment issue was addressed years back with a fun mod where a hex key was laid along side the poles to make a bar magnet. I have a photo archived somewhere but it worked for him.
any descriptive audio would be of interest.

Awesome will do, and I saw this suggestion on the poles, which is where I got inspired to buy a steel bar to replace them. Is this similar in implementation to the hex mod? It's post #11, second from the last post (#12).

"Mudbucker" repalcement pickup

 

[HaphAsSard]

Awesome will do, and I saw this suggestion on the poles, which is where I got inspired to buy a steel bar to replace them. Is this similar in implementation to the hex mod? It's post #11, second from the last post (#12).

"Mudbucker" repalcement pickup

That one is by our own @beate_r.

 

[Bass V]

sounds like the same concept, not sure if it works on all belt buckle style PUs as there are many different designs under the hood, but might help basses like the Fender Modern Player Tele.

 

[Ostie]

I went back and read the posts about the steel bar or hex bar mod for the Epiphone EB0 HB. It’s said that it improves the tone, Can someone who has done it or has experience with it explain how it improves the tone? I’m talking about the tonal characteristics, not the electronics. Thanks.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I have an Epiphone EB0 and added a mini humbucker in the bridge. It’s sort of an EB3 now.

I cut the center connection on the sidewinder and used a push-pull pot to switch it from humbucker to single coil. The mini humbucker was already a four wire pickup with a pair of wires to each coil. Its push-pull pot switches it from series to parallel. My favorite tone of the bass is the sidewinder in single coil mode & the mini-humbucker with its two coils in series. When I switch the sidewinder to series humbucker (its original config in the EB0) it has so much output, it pretty much overrides the mini HB in the bridge position.

 

[DOOMonkee]

I went back and read the posts about the steel bar or hex bar mod for the Epiphone EB0 HB. It’s said that it improves the tone, Can someone who has done it or has experience with it explain how it improves the tone? I’m talking about the tonal characteristics, not the electronics. Thanks.

My goal is to capture this via mic'ing my cab and do one recording with my current setup, and a second with the steel bar. There will be a third, which will be steel bar and rare earth magnets. This way, if anyone wants to see what difference this makes, the recording will hopefully be high enough quality to allow that distinction. My components will arrive this week, ready for the weekend where I will probably be installing/recording on Sunday.

 

[Ostie]

Great! I’ll stay tuned. Thanks.

It’s an easy mod, and totally reversible, so I guess I should just do it and see if I like it. I’m just wondering what I can expect, tone wise. Because I actually like the HB tone. It’s not like I want it to sound like a J or even a P, or anything else.

 

[DOOMonkee]

Alright, I wanted to get it up quick, it's not perfect demo for this reason... sorry about that. I think what is more important is that in the next few weeks, I will be converting this to a fretless, two "mudbucker", with BEAD tuning. In that, I will spend more time actually making a proper demo (with better playing). This has tone at 100%, 50%, and 0%, in the two mudbucker build, I'll be testing the two volumes in addition to two mudbuckers in series + out of phase (just because I have an extra push-pull, and the sound is usually Motorhead-worthy coming out of a cranked Orange OB1 amp). I'm still considering placing rare earth magnets in the pickup, if this occurs, I will reupload with that addition, but it's up in the air since for the effort I'm doubting it will do much.

[Edit]
I'll allow the forum to decide, but I don't notice much of difference given how weak the magnetic field is in the center. This comparison result was further inspiration looking into neodymium. I might also mention this only has two magnets at the top, some models have 4 magnets. Attached is a pic of the pup with the bar in place of the poles.

 

[the mojo hobo]

I did this a long time ago. late Seventies, to a non-reverse Thunderbird. Two Dimarzio Model 1 pickups, each with coil split capability. Ran it like that for a long time. Wired stereo for a while when I also had a Rickenbacker. Currently has a Dimarzio Will Power at the bridge for it's wider spacing.

 

[DOOMonkee]

Nice T-bird! I've always wanted to hear the DiMarzio and Gibson side by side, heard the Model One is a little more versatile than the Gibson sidewinder.

Small update as well, I got itchy and ripped out the old magnets and put in the neodymium bars. I'll reupload with that demo, again the demo isn't going to be too crazy or high quality, I just want to keep the equipment, tune, and fingerstyle pressure consistent. The magnetic field is MUCH stronger, as expected, so the bar is nice and sticky. In an off test, it seems the pickup has gained a bit of clarity, but much of that oomph is still there. Maybe it's a bit of placebo, but the recording will be the final test of whether this sounds better or not.

 

[DOOMonkee]

For those interested, here is my reupload, included is the comparison with neodymium rare earth in place of the ceramic on the Artec. I did not go back and put the poles back in, as this rod makes for a better solution for pole spacing than it does add any significant color to the sound (at least in my test). While I'd argue it's not enough of a difference that your average person would care, I think the swap adds just a sliver of clarity and tightens the lows. By a small amount it does make the bass deeper and less muddy, which is good and bad for some, but it's easy to dial back the tone for the mud. Just a reminder, this test is for tone, forgive the sloppiness.

 

[DOOMonkee]

Just a quick update on this thread, I have added a second pickup to my Epiphone EB-0. Both modified with steel bars and neodymium magnets on the pickups, the bass is now fretless, strung BEAD, and has three push-pull pots (series, out of phase, and a kill switch). There will be an updated sound clip with a better demo. Unfortunately I'll need a bit of time as the pickups are too microphonic with the modifications so I'll need to wax pot them.

Additionally, just an FYI, the pole spacing on the Artec is actually perfect for the Epiphone bridge position, they are slightly unaligned at the neck. Therefore, realistically you don't need to yank out the poles and use a bar.

 

[Supernaute]

Old thread bump.

I’ve been thinking about doing this with an EB-0. I used MS paint to move the bridge pickup location closer to the neck on this picture. Would this be enough to mitigate the pole spacing issue in a dual mudbucker setup?