Two new, identical Subway 1x15 cabs sound different

[dkelley]

"Identical" and "almost identical" is the difference between "in theory" and "in practice".

There will always be measured differences because of the known production tolerances of drivers. Of course, somebody with extremely sensitive hearing might be able to hear the slight differences where most players would not.

In general, and specifically with the Subway cabinets, the differences between production driver samples are very small because the drivers are designed, built and tested to tighter standards than say the average driver sourced form overseas. This is part of what drives the selection, and unfortunately some additional cost.

yes. I meant that normally nobody should be able to hear a clear difference between them. testing isn't what I was referring to. identical sounding, to the typical naked, ear, is what I was talking about. He shouldn't expect to hear a difference between them, and I said this because he suggested in his first post, and several others here have too, that it is normal to easily hear a difference between two identical cabs/drivers.

 

[Tommy Sparks]

I have no answers to add. However...... SWEET RIG!
Hope you get it sorted out

 

[agedhorse]

yes. I meant that normally nobody should be able to hear a clear difference between them. testing isn't what I was referring to. identical sounding, to the typical naked, ear, is what I was talking about. He shouldn't expect to hear a difference between them, and I said this because he suggested in his first post, and several others here have too, that it is normal to easily hear a difference between two identical cabs/drivers.

Understood. I was clarifying for others following along who may have missed the fine points.

 

[matti777]

It wouldn't be the first time somebody bought something, damaged it, attempted to repair it and returned it to an unknowing vendor.

 

[seamonkey]

personal anecdote: i've used used cabs my whole performing 'career', except when i got into assembling fEarfuls. i was shocked to hear the difference that breaking in the speaker made in a brand-new cab. i suggest putting about 6 hours on them and then comparing them again.

also, have you tried playing full-range music through the cabs? if something is off, a full-range source may expose it more clearly.

I think going down the burn-in rabbit hole isn't productive here.

It would really be helpful if you had some before and after break-in recordings of your fEarfuls just as a side comparison.

While true then spiders and surrounds do change compliance there is no or very little audible changes.

Recordings would help. or
Parts Express Dayton Audio DATS V3 could easily measure the difference between burn in or not.

 

[Auspuff]

I had a similar experience!
Drove a car once. Hated it! Went out, bought a motorcycle. Never looked back.
Especially because objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear...

Actually, I had a motorcycle, long before I had a car, so there may be some truth in what you claim.

 

[Addison]

Hey, everyone - I took videos with my Zoom Q8 on the floor about 6 feet in front of the two cabs, side-by-side, playing the same two bass lines with the tweeter on Normal, off and full - then I switched the speaker cable from one cab to the other and did the same thing - then I taped markers on the floor, swapped cab locations and did the same thing - and then I played some Tom Sawyer through it and went through the process again.

It's about 45 minutes of video. I'm going to edit it all together in a way that makes sense and then, if I relisten and and I'm not insane, I'll upload a private video and send it to @agedhorse to get his perspective and then I'll post an update.

The last thing I want is for people to jump to conclusions about anything - this could very well have been me and my ears and cab location, etc. And, to be honest, I'm beginning to think it is just me, speaker proximity, ear bias and simply being gun-shy about spending this much money on stuff and being overly critical. I'm not afraid to admit it if that is truly the case and I'm happy to have my temporary panic and embarrassment be a teaching moment for anyone else who might be experiencing something similar with their ears tricking their brains and vise-versa.

Anyhoo ... thanks for all the comments! Once I get everything together, I'll post an update!

 

[Giraffe]

...Recordings would help. or
Parts Express Dayton Audio DATS V3 could easily measure the difference between burn in or not.

I think these are outstanding points!

This whole site would be much more useful if we posted more sound clips. Otherwise we are "dancing about architecture!"*

That Dayton test gear is cheap and limited but it is also very useful. It will take frequency response readings that can facilitate the search for perfect gear. It helps troubleshoot problems, and it can help set up PA and other gear. I own the Dayton gear, and I use it to prototype different cab designs. I compare the Dayton specs to measurements taken by pros at my speaker club meetings, and the results are sufficiently similiar.

I've built quite a few bass cabs, and I don't recall hearing two identical cabs so different that I could distinguish them from each other. That is using high quality consumer drivers and crossover components, which keeps those tolerances close.

If I had those beautiful blue cabs in front of me, I would follow Agedhorse's suggestion of killing the tweets to see if I could isolate the difference to the woofer or tweeter. I might try unbalancing the tweet controls to see if some of the difference could be dialed out.

*Frank Zappa said "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."

 

[yodedude2]

I think going down the burn-in rabbit hole isn't productive here. ...

reckon so

 

[agedhorse]

The drivers used in the Subway cabinets change very little over the live of the driver (when driven within it’s published ratings. This minimal aging characteristic was an important criteria in the selection of the drivers and contribute to a long, reliable service life.

 

[Ric5]

Hello!

I searched for this and didn’t find anything …

I just bought two brand-new Bronco Baby Blue Subway 1x15 cabs and a TT800 head. I immediately hooked up both cabs and started playing around - I’ll join in the thousands of others with the accolades, because the rig sounds amazing and I feel like I barely scratched the surface so far.

My question comes because I switched to 8 ohm mode, set the tweeter attenuators to “Normal” on both cabs and A/B’d them and they sound quite a bit different.

I have them both on the floor, side by side. One is clearly punchy but warm and the other has more bite but much less warmth. These came from a store, so I’m hoping that it’s just because maybe one cab was used more on the floor and is broken in more than the other, but would that make that much difference?

Obviously, I don’t expect them to sound identical, but there is a little more difference than I feel like there should be in matching cabs.

The other thing I noticed is that one of the screws was stripped in the “Subway” badge, causing a rattle — hoping Mesa customer service will have an idea how to resolve that issue.

Anyway, I’m waiting to hear back from the store to see if one cab was maybe used more than the other while on display, but I was looking for anyone else who may have experienced the same thing. I don’t have a ton of experience using matching cabs.

Thanks!

is it possible they sometimes use a different driver?

or maybe the factory they get the drivers from has changed the speakers they make?

 

[Ric5]

Can you post a pic?? I am very curious to see blue 15 Subways. All I ever see is black. View attachment 4447642

I love the unique fretless 5

 

[beans-on-toast]

In the twilight zone…Someone buys a cabinet, takes it home and swaps out the speaker, then returns it to the store for a refund. This is a concern of electronic parts suppliers, one way that fraudulent components are laundered.

 

[gstaats]

In the twilight zone…Someone buys a cabinet, takes it home and swaps out the speaker, then returns it to the store for a refund. This is a concern of electronic parts suppliers, one way that fraudulent components are laundered.

One of the first things I do to a cab when it comes home and isn't in a factory sealed box (I buy all my amp gear used... so this is every cab that I've ever owned, even the isovent when it came in the house) is remove or inspect all drivers. One of the questions I always ask a seller are if the drivers are original... If they yes, which most do, I still inspect to verify. If there is a non-OEM driver found, I usually request the funds to procure an OEM driver for the cab. If not available, usually I work out some deal with the seller as it is usually too expensive for the seller to eat shipping the cab to me and paying for return shipping. I try to also take pictures of drivers when selling a cab for this reason too. Too many crooks out there trying to pawn off crap to unsuspecting folks. I also inspect pickups on basses this way too...

 

[agedhorse]

is it possible they sometimes use a different driver?

or maybe the factory they get the drivers from has changed the speakers they make?

Nope.

 

[beans-on-toast]

One of the first things I do to a cab when it comes home and isn't in a factory sealed box (I buy all my amp gear used... so this is every cab that I've ever owned, even the isovent when it came in the house) is remove or inspect all drivers. One of the questions I always ask a seller are if the drivers are original... If they yes, which most do, I still inspect to verify. If there is a non-OEM driver found, I usually request the funds to procure an OEM driver for the cab. If not available, usually I work out some deal with the seller as it is usually too expensive for the seller to eat shipping the cab to me and paying for return shipping. I try to also take pictures of drivers when selling a cab for this reason too. Too many crooks out there trying to pawn off crap to unsuspecting folks. I also inspect pickups on basses this way too...

Yes! I’ve seen cases in the vintage instrument trade where people represent an instrument as all original in the photos and then swap in repro parts. Inexperienced buyers do get fooled. It’s unfortunate but these things happen. Worst case, people pay for newer instruments that have been reworked to look vintage. Much like an art forgery.

 

[Ric5]

Nope.

Maybe different insulation inside the cab?

 

[dkelley]

Understood. I was clarifying for others following along who may have missed the fine points.

thanks, wise!

 

[agedhorse]

Maybe different insulation inside the cab?

Let’s wait until we get more info. before resorting to guessing.

 

[logdrum]

I am pretty sure it's not Pho Friday, QC has evolved in many industries, Driver break in probably. But considering they do a hammer test after a 24 hour burn in on their tube amps.

Having said, I have identical Mesa Boogie 112 guitar cabs with EVM12 200 watt drivers. They do not sound the same - one is not better than the other, just different.

If your cabs are not defective or nobody exchanged the drivers - and they are just slightly different in character, if it were me, I'd let it be. Also did you use a looper or maybe a constant program source (I myself would probably have a frequency sweep, some transients composed of sine, square and triangle waves, some white and pink noise. Record all of those and send to Mesa or Senor Caballo-Viejo

Also since I lived in a semi rural area, when I get a new cab, I safely play it loud. Nothing is more frustrating than sounding perfect in practice only to find out that you have defective drivers after the warranty expired. Mesa would probably still be helpful but they are not obligated to. And yes I've seen this happen (not Mesa)