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U.S. Peavey Club

#2,622
I would stick with 250K for a single coil like the Superferrite. While you might get a slight boost in output with a 500k(and it would probably be very slight) the taper characteristics will become very dramatic. It will make adjusting volume and tone levels more difficult, with large changes at the bottom of the sweep and very small changes at the top.
 
#2,624
MNAirHead said:

Learning question...
From your experience, do the coils in these go bad.. would you also guess that the lead itself may be compromised.

I'm gilted on this one.. I can just hear my dad (we used to rebuild/resell guitars and amps together) ... he'd be freaking out "holy sardines --- if it works the wired backwards way -- why can't it work the factory way"

My dad would get tripped up on the EE theory of stuff... ..

I do like the idea of reversing it vs spending money on replacements.


Looking to learn - thanks for the reply
Click to expand...

Since the PUs are potted with epoxy, the solder joints and terminals where the ends of the coil are connected to the center conductors of the shielded wire should see zero stress. The fine wire of the coil should also see no stress or movement. Every failure I have personally seen on an epoxy potted PU that has worked for years has been at the cable end that soldered to the PCB or controls.

On the way the SF PUs are constructed.....there is a start and finish end of the coils. The start is at the inside of the bobbin and the finish is on the outside of the coil. I don't know the wiring color code but lets say the red wire in the cable is soldered to the start of the coil and the black wire in the cable is soldered to the finish of the coil. The bare ground wire is connected to the magnet structure and any copper foil shielding tape that may be used to ground them.

For use of one pickup the best wiring arrangement would be to use the red wire (start) for the hot side and to combine the black (finish) and bare wire for ground. This puts the outer layers of the coil at ground potential and turns it into shielding.

For a humbucking pair.... both SF PUs are wired the same internally but magnetized to opposite polarities. North pole toward the strings on one and South pole toward the strings on the other. If one PU is wired as above the other must be wired with the Red wire (start) to ground and the black wire (finish) is used as the hot or output side. This way the pickups are out of phase magnetically and electrically. As squirrelly as this sounds it makes the output of the PUs in phase as far as the vibrations of the strings are concerned.

The above arrangement of the SF PUs require a three wire system. If you have a PU with only two wires..hot and ground, where the ground is the shield of the cable...you can't reverse the wires and expect it to work well. Would probably have atrocious hummmm due to the shielding parts that should be grounded are now the Hot side.

Clear as mud? :D

mech
 
#2,625
Basstovsky said:
black peavey string tree that I would need to match the rest of the hardware.
Click to expand...

The string tree looks like it's brass. Birchwood Casey makes makes a chemical that turns brass black. It works on any material that has a decent copper content. Any clear coat needs to be removed and the part needs to be shiny clean and de-greased. I've used it on brass parts and it works pretty well. Even works on fretts. It will wear off and scratch but is easy to touch up.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=...7c187_a_7c745_a_7c167005200_d_167005200_d_145

mech
 
#2,627
mech said:
The string tree looks like it's brass. Birchwood Casey makes makes a chemical that turns brass black. It works on any material that has a decent copper content. Any clear coat needs to be removed and the part needs to be shiny clean and de-greased. I've used it on brass parts and it works pretty well. Even works on fretts. It will wear off and scratch but is easy to touch up.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=...7c187_a_7c745_a_7c167005200_d_167005200_d_145

mech
Click to expand...

Phosphoric acid is probably the active ingredient.. many toilet bowl cleaners and CLR will have this in it.

OR ...
multiple thin coats of black fingernail polish (for all you goth kids)

Timmy
 
#2,630
MNAirHead said:
Mech..

Learning question.. if wiring "backwards" works -- doens't this elude to a dongle lead being broken? (and repairable)

My guess was that moving the lead made it work again... not the reverse wiring.

I could be wrong
Click to expand...

Yes. It means the "hot" center conductor is shorted to one of the ground wires and the short circuit is most likely at the control end of the cable. The only way to tell if the fault is on the control end of the cable is to strip the outer insulation back about 1/2" and inspect. The insulation on one of the center conductors being melted and sticking to the bare ground wire would show where the problem is 99% of the time. All that needs to be done is to separate the wires and insulate the melted one with a small piece of good tape or heatshrink or, if the cable is long enough, it can be cut and re-done.

mech
 
#2,632
MNAirHead said:
Mech..

Dumb street question.

So if we found some 2 conductors + shield wire.... cut back a few inches.. spliced together, should this fix it?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't even cut the cable back. Just strip about 1/2" of the outer insulation off and see if the insulation on the inner wires was melted. If the wires are too messy I'd trim and re-dress the ends.

The short will occur close to where the end of the wire is soldered due to too much heat being used. The heat from making the solder joint travels up the wire and will melt the plastic insulation.

Mech..
I'm confused.. is your bass pickup now fixed or still broken.
Click to expand...

It's oldrookie's, not mine.

mech
 
#2,633
I'll be asking my guy to check the first 1/2" or so prior to changing the polarity on both pickups.

It absolutely makes sense that the most logical weakness is going to be in the wiring outside the epoxy.

He'll get to it some time next week. I'll report back when he does.

Thank you to all involved in the discussion. Very helpful and I've learned a lot.
 
#2,635
So played the Patriot at rehearsal, and it fits pretty well. With my amp's EQ flat, it cuts through like a knife on some songs, but others it got lost. EQing for this bass was odd for me, usually I have to boost mids across the board, but this bass has mids in spades. By cutting highs, putting high and low mids pretty much flat, and boosting the bass frequencies I got a good overall sound out of it. Its too comfortable a bass to pass up gigging, especially being lightweight for those 3 hour gigs. It does dive a little, so I've been messing around with my strap a bit to see if I can eliminate it without having to mess with the instrument itself.

Also did surgery on my fabric lined molded case, and lo and behold the obnoxious metal rattling noise was the 2 case supports stuck in the molded cavity. So the ones from the patriot case have friends in the parts drawer now.

As promised, pictures that don't suck so much (if it wasn't winter I could get ones outside with decent lighting):
DSC00830.gif


OK so my workshop is a little messy...... :rolleyes:

DSC00835.gif


DSC00853.gif

For some reason my camera wouldnt focus on the front here, yet I could get this next one perfectly sharp
DSC00842.gif


Now of course after loving this bass, I can only imagine what a Dyna would be like.... Anyone compare a patriot neck to a dyna? :p
 
#2,636
Good score, looks to be in pretty nice shape. Those things are definitely not short in the "mids" department.

The neck on yours looks like the "jazz-like" version, as opposed to the standard beefier P-type. I've had a couple of each.

I *think* the ones with jazz neck, painted headstock, and black hardware were called Patriot "Specials", or maybe Patriot "Customs". (??) Perhaps someone else knows the right designation?

One thing I noticed about the black Titan tuners...the gears are easily stripped. Whatever that black finish is, it's not as durable as chrome or nickel. If you can see any brass showing thru, try to fix it before it becomes unusable.
 
#2,637
Basstovsky said:
So played the Patriot at rehearsal, and it fits pretty well. With my amp's EQ flat, it cuts through like a knife on some songs, but others it got lost. EQing for this bass was odd for me, usually I have to boost mids across the board, but this bass has mids in spades. By cutting highs, putting high and low mids pretty much flat, and boosting the bass frequencies I got a good overall sound out of it. Its too comfortable a bass to pass up gigging, especially being lightweight for those 3 hour gigs. It does dive a little, so I've been messing around with my strap a bit to see if I can eliminate it without having to mess with the instrument itself.

Also did surgery on my fabric lined molded case, and lo and behold the obnoxious metal rattling noise was the 2 case supports stuck in the molded cavity. So the ones from the patriot case have friends in the parts drawer now.

As promised, pictures that don't suck so much (if it wasn't winter I could get ones outside with decent lighting):
DSC00830.gif


OK so my workshop is a little messy...... :rolleyes:

DSC00835.gif


DSC00853.gif

For some reason my camera wouldnt focus on the front here, yet I could get this next one perfectly sharp
DSC00842.gif


Now of course after loving this bass, I can only imagine what a Dyna would be like.... Anyone compare a patriot neck to a dyna? :p
Click to expand...

Depends which of the Dyna variations you're describing... and which of the Patriots..

There are some obscure Dynas that will loop circles around most basses.
 
#2,638
Basstovsky, those photos are Great, Congrats!

I've got the 5 string version of the Dyna, and no Patriot for comparison. Maybe someone will offer a comparison of the 4 string Dyna & Patriot necks.
The Dyna fiver neck qualifies as a C shape, though I'm a student-not expert about neck shape. Anyone?
 
#2,639
thanks all,

for comparison I believe my Patriot is an '87, serial is 0270xxxx, and i would be looking into a Dyna with super ferrites of the same era. Ive seen a bunch from mid to late 80s on ebay for reasonable price, if they are as comfortable to play (light, thin and narrow neck, small body) as this Patriot is, I would love having one to have an active option in addition to the passive single pickup Patriot.

Of course this is merely speculation until maybe I thin my herd a little... need to sever my emotional ties and sell one or two before it gets out of hand...
 
#2,640
The necks are similar.

OPINION.. if out shopping the coolest of dynas are the VFLish with 2 stacked pots or other models - they're kind of rare and would be one of the last era... the bass you're describing is a foundation with a preamp.





Basstovsky said:
thanks all,

for comparison I believe my Patriot is an '87, serial is 0270xxxx, and i would be looking into a Dyna with super ferrites of the same era. Ive seen a bunch from mid to late 80s on ebay for reasonable price, if they are as comfortable to play (light, thin and narrow neck, small body) as this Patriot is, I would love having one to have an active option in addition to the passive single pickup Patriot.

Of course this is merely speculation until maybe I thin my herd a little... need to sever my emotional ties and sell one or two before it gets out of hand...
Click to expand...
 

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