U.S. Peavey Club

[58kites]

The first four knobs are in the correct G Bass positions to match the G Bass pre circuit board.
Even though this bass doesn't have a Peavey Pre according to the listing.
I think it was a G Bass body to start with.

 

[Runnerman]

So much speculation about the freaky G Bass.
If Ronnie was still here he would straighten us all out.
Times like this I really miss him.

 

[kodiakblair]

So much speculation about the freaky G Bass.
If Ronnie was still here he would straighten us all out.

I suspect my Good Brother would struggle at times.

The factory clearout created a perfect storm for folks to slap stuff together then claiming "prototype".

 

[bigtone23]

Oops, I meant to ask that question over in the Peavey thread, I would guess it's a much more welcome topic there. I'm gonna post it there too.

I am not restricted to using either of the existing Foundation pickup holes for the routing.
They can both be filled or covered or filled and covered.
As listed above, I've got a lot of basses with pickups in the P spot, that's why I'm thinking maybe in mudbucker spot.
Do you think it would be better to keep it in the existing Foundy neck hole position and route toward the neck or go up to the mudbucker spot?
Does the T40 pickup produce a sound that will not be too muddy and sound great up there or is that too far no matter what pickup goes in that spot up by the neck?

Firstly, logistics...
I don't think you can accurately drop a Toaster in the exact Fender WRHB/Mudbucker spot, as the neck pocket is too deep from the 21 fret Foundy neck. My former Squier 72 Tele bass pickup had it's neck side coil located 24 5/8" from the nut, which is nearly butted up to the neck. My Foundy neck heel is 24 5/16" from the nut. It would probably be fine, but that's not a lot of wood between the heel and the pickup rout. A good ol' 21 fret Fender neck has the heel about 23.5" from the nut, which gives a safer feeling inch of wood between the heel and pickup rout.

For comparison, the T40 puts the neck toaster coils at 25 3/8" and 26 3/8" from the nut, which would work. My RicRiot has it's neck coil right at 25 3/8-25.5" area, which is where the '24th fret' harmonic rings out. A P bass has it's coils centered at 28.5", which is exactly where mine are on my Toaster equipped Foundation T. If you rout the neck pickup cavity towards the neck, you will have coils at 27 & 28" from the nut, which isn't far off from where a 51 P and J neck are.
If I were to do a Toaster located closer to the heel, I would put the neck coil at the 25.5" spot, which then puts the bridge side coil at 26.5". If you split the Toaster to the neck coil, it will harmonically sound sort of like a Ric neck pickup. IF you split to the bridge side coil, it will have a sort of a '7/8" north of a '51 P' thing. Just gotta measure three times, as routing for this location could run really close to the stock neck pickup cavity. If you fill the stock cavities, no biggie.

Now the tone...
The Toasters and Blades are not really present sounding pickups, especially compared to Super Ferrites. Chip Todd has commented that the T60 Toasters were better sounding bass pickups vs the T40 pickups, but the T60s were too narrow for the bass string spacing. If he could redesign the Toasters/Blades, he would give them more presence. I have noticed that my Blade in my RB45 is a little brighter vs the Toaster in the Foundation T. However, the Blade is still darker than a SF.

The best sounding pickup combo on my Foundation T was when I routed the Toaster in the bridge and still had the stock Super Ferrite in the neck. The bridge tonality was thicker and smoother, the neck had that classic SF aggression and clarity. However, this was not the end goal, and I got the router out again when the 2nd Toaster showed up.

When the neck Toaster was installed, it certainly was smoother sounding (even in split mode). Something I could do to bring out more air and brightness to the Toasters would be swapping out the stock 250K volume and tone pots with 500K pots. I like higher value tone pots, and the 500K volumes would also raise the resonant frequency of the pickups. However, I probably won't do this. The stock pots sound and work great, and having a smoother sounding bass is a better choice for versatility in my bass toolbox-as I have plenty of basses that are bright (like the El Toro, Foundys/Dynas, Stingrays, J's).
Those Fender WRHB Mudbuckers usually had 1M pots to keep them from sounding too dark, but the WRHB (in series) is very powerful and dark vs a Toaster.

 

[58kites]

Firstly, logistics...
I don't think you can accurately drop a Toaster in the exact Fender WRHB/Mudbucker spot, as the neck pocket is too deep from the 21 fret Foundy neck. My former Squier 72 Tele bass pickup had it's neck side coil located 24 5/8" from the nut, which is nearly butted up to the neck. My Foundy neck heel is 24 5/16" from the nut. It would probably be fine, but that's not a lot of wood between the heel and the pickup rout. A good ol' 21 fret Fender neck has the heel about 23.5" from the nut, which gives a safer feeling inch of wood between the heel and pickup rout.

For comparison, the T40 puts the neck toaster coils at 25 3/8" and 26 3/8" from the nut, which would work. My RicRiot has it's neck coil right at 25 3/8-25.5" area, which is where the '24th fret' harmonic rings out. A P bass has it's coils centered at 28.5", which is exactly where mine are on my Toaster equipped Foundation T. If you rout the neck pickup cavity towards the neck, you will have coils at 27 & 28" from the nut, which isn't far off from where a 51 P and J neck are.
If I were to do a Toaster located closer to the heel, I would put the neck coil at the 25.5" spot, which then puts the bridge side coil at 26.5". If you split the Toaster to the neck coil, it will harmonically sound sort of like a Ric neck pickup. IF you split to the bridge side coil, it will have a sort of a '7/8" north of a '51 P' thing. Just gotta measure three times, as routing for this location could run really close to the stock neck pickup cavity. If you fill the stock cavities, no biggie.

Now the tone...
The Toasters and Blades are not really present sounding pickups, especially compared to Super Ferrites. Chip Todd has commented that the T60 Toasters were better sounding bass pickups vs the T40 pickups, but the T60s were too narrow for the bass string spacing. If he could redesign the Toasters/Blades, he would give them more presence. I have noticed that my Blade in my RB45 is a little brighter vs the Toaster in the Foundation T. However, the Blade is still darker than a SF.

The best sounding pickup combo on my Foundation T was when I routed the Toaster in the bridge and still had the stock Super Ferrite in the neck. The bridge tonality was thicker and smoother, the neck had that classic SF aggression and clarity. However, this was not the end goal, and I got the router out again when the 2nd Toaster showed up.

When the neck Toaster was installed, it certainly was smoother sounding (even in split mode). Something I could do to bring out more air and brightness to the Toasters would be swapping out the stock 250K volume and tone pots with 500K pots. I like higher value tone pots, and the 500K volumes would also raise the resonant frequency of the pickups. However, I probably won't do this. The stock pots sound and work great, and having a smoother sounding bass is a better choice for versatility in my bass toolbox-as I have plenty of basses that are bright (like the El Toro, Foundys/Dynas, Stingrays, J's).
Those Fender WRHB Mudbuckers usually had 1M pots to keep them from sounding too dark, but the WRHB (in series) is very powerful and dark vs a Toaster.

Thank you for that, as usual... super informative and well thought out.
You are a valuable asset to Talkbass.

 

[BassikLee]

Firstly, logistics...
I don't think you can accurately drop a Toaster in the exact Fender WRHB/Mudbucker spot, as the neck pocket is too deep from the 21 fret Foundy neck. My former Squier 72 Tele bass pickup had it's neck side coil located 24 5/8" from the nut, which is nearly butted up to the neck. My Foundy neck heel is 24 5/16" from the nut. It would probably be fine, but that's not a lot of wood between the heel and the pickup rout. A good ol' 21 fret Fender neck has the heel about 23.5" from the nut, which gives a safer feeling inch of wood between the heel and pickup rout.

For comparison, the T40 puts the neck toaster coils at 25 3/8" and 26 3/8" from the nut, which would work. My RicRiot has it's neck coil right at 25 3/8-25.5" area, which is where the '24th fret' harmonic rings out. A P bass has it's coils centered at 28.5", which is exactly where mine are on my Toaster equipped Foundation T. If you rout the neck pickup cavity towards the neck, you will have coils at 27 & 28" from the nut, which isn't far off from where a 51 P and J neck are.
If I were to do a Toaster located closer to the heel, I would put the neck coil at the 25.5" spot, which then puts the bridge side coil at 26.5". If you split the Toaster to the neck coil, it will harmonically sound sort of like a Ric neck pickup. IF you split to the bridge side coil, it will have a sort of a '7/8" north of a '51 P' thing. Just gotta measure three times, as routing for this location could run really close to the stock neck pickup cavity. If you fill the stock cavities, no biggie.

Now the tone...
The Toasters and Blades are not really present sounding pickups, especially compared to Super Ferrites. Chip Todd has commented that the T60 Toasters were better sounding bass pickups vs the T40 pickups, but the T60s were too narrow for the bass string spacing. If he could redesign the Toasters/Blades, he would give them more presence. I have noticed that my Blade in my RB45 is a little brighter vs the Toaster in the Foundation T. However, the Blade is still darker than a SF.

The best sounding pickup combo on my Foundation T was when I routed the Toaster in the bridge and still had the stock Super Ferrite in the neck. The bridge tonality was thicker and smoother, the neck had that classic SF aggression and clarity. However, this was not the end goal, and I got the router out again when the 2nd Toaster showed up.

When the neck Toaster was installed, it certainly was smoother sounding (even in split mode). Something I could do to bring out more air and brightness to the Toasters would be swapping out the stock 250K volume and tone pots with 500K pots. I like higher value tone pots, and the 500K volumes would also raise the resonant frequency of the pickups. However, I probably won't do this. The stock pots sound and work great, and having a smoother sounding bass is a better choice for versatility in my bass toolbox-as I have plenty of basses that are bright (like the El Toro, Foundys/Dynas, Stingrays, J's).
Those Fender WRHB Mudbuckers usually had 1M pots to keep them from sounding too dark, but the WRHB (in series) is very powerful and dark vs a Toaster.

Are you of the opinion that the body wood at the heel of the neck does anything to hold it in place? I can assure you, it does not. The clamping pressure of the neck screws does 99.03% of it, while the shear strength of the screws does the other 0.97%.

 

[MNAirHead]

I'm also not 100% sure about the body.

Millennium BXP are already JJ. Rout for the MM, stick a G-bass neck on, move bridge back slightly to account for 35" scale intonation. All you need do is drill for the extra knobs.

Learning question - so a BXP and a USA Millenium have the same neck pocket?

 

[AudioTaper]

Are you of the opinion that the body wood at the heel of the neck does anything to hold it in place? I can assure you, it does not. The clamping pressure of the neck screws does 99.03% of it, while the shear strength of the screws does the other 0.97%.

I agree. I've seen many basses where the pocket is so poorly cut it's not touching.

Sound/vibration transfer? That may be a different story

 

[kodiakblair]

Learning question - so a BXP and a USA Millenium have the same neck pocket?

Yes even though they differ regarding scale length.

Peavey neck pockets are pretty much all the same .

Foundation with Millennium BXP neck.

T-40 PG around Millennium BXP heel.

1st Gen Fury PG around Millennium BXP heel.

Zodiac DE Scorpio with Millennium BXP neck.

Foundation/Fury/Patriot share the same neck, just the logos differed, Dynabass also shared the same basic neck with different fretboard material and logo. Though I've never tried it I'm pretty sure B-90 and Form PJ basses could sport a Millennium neck

I briefly had a T-40 on a Patriot while the original neck was being clamped straight, as the PG photo shows I could have used a Millennium. Ronnie (mech) had a T-40 sporting an all maple Milestone neck.

 

[kodiakblair]

I've seen many basses where the pocket is so poorly cut it's not touching.

Pretty standard with US Fenders.
I don't view this as 'poorly cut' as it gives you play should pickups or bridge are slightly out of sync.

Sound/Vibration ?

If this was a thing, basses would ship with a security cordon stopping sound/vibrations from straying into the lower horn cut out area

 

[Chuck M]

I agree. I've seen many basses where the pocket is so poorly cut it's not touching.

Many GV and G basses have a crack in the body because the graphite and wood expand and contract at differing rates with temperature changes. Many Modulus basses have that crack in the body and G.Gould basses have a bit of a gap in the neck pocket to prevent the crack. Zon basses are noted for developing those body cracks.

A nice tight neck body joint looks nice and requires careful workmanship to produce that tight fit but it can cause problems. I once had a Fender custom shop Precision bass and the neck body joint was very tight so that the neck was stuck in the body making it impossible to access the truss rod nut. I took it back to the dealer and their repairman loosened the strings, took the neck bolts out and then gave the neck a whack with his palm to dislodge it from the neck pocket. It came out alright and a lot of body finish came with it so the bass had to be returned to Fender for repair.

There is something to be said for the nice look of a tight neck pocket joint and there is something to be said for the practicality of having a reasonable amount of clearance.

Oh, wait! Just buy a Cirrus! Problem solved.

 

[BassikLee]

There are two different Millennium BXP neck heels. The ones with the hex key truss rod at the nut end have a rounded heel. The ones with the spoke wheel have a square heel. At least with the five strings.

 

[kodiakblair]

The ones with the spoke wheel have a square heel. At least with the five strings.

 

[BassikLee]

I can counter with a pic of a square heel spoke wheel neck if I must. It's upstairs.

 

[AudioTaper]

I can counter with a pic of a square heel spoke wheel neck if I must. It's upstairs.

Square heel GV neck and spoke wheel (before it was cleaned up)

It's on an Esh Stinger body copy I made

 

[kodiakblair]

I can counter with a pic of a square heel spoke wheel neck if I must. It's upstairs.

No need.

I'm well aware there's squared heel spokes since I used both squared and rounded spoke wheel necks for the photos I posted.

 

[BassikLee]

Allow me to correct my earlier statement. There are both rounded and square heel Millennium BXP 5 necks. The two I have include a rounded heel, with headstock truss rod adjust, and a square heel with spoke wheel truss rod adjust. As was pointed out above, there are also rounded heel spoke wheel adjust Milly BXP 5 necks out there.

 

[BassikLee]

No need.

I'm well aware there's squared heel spokes since I used both squared and rounded spoke wheel necks for the photos I posted.

Neither of which was a Millennium BXP 5 neck.

 

[kodiakblair]

Neither of which was a Millennium BXP 5 neck.

Which were made with spoke wheels in both rounded and squared heel format.

Christ sake Lee. If you want to indulge in petty point scoring, have at it ; I'm out.

 

[bigtone23]

Are you of the opinion that the body wood at the heel of the neck does anything to hold it in place? I can assure you, it does not. The clamping pressure of the neck screws does 99.03% of it, while the shear strength of the screws does the other 0.97%.

I'm well aware that the neck pocket is not holding the neck in place, the screws are.

I agree. I've seen many basses where the pocket is so poorly cut it's not touching.

Sound/vibration transfer? That may be a different story

Yep. Seen many a loose pocket and the bass sounded fine. However, I do hear a better vibration transfer when the heel is snug against the pocket wall-particularly the very end of the neck heel on the leading edge of the pocket. I do this by stringing up to pitch, loosening the neck screws maybe 1/4-1/2 turn each, at some point, you hear a squeaky movement as the neck settles deep in the pocket. Tighten the screws, adjust the intonation, carry on. This way the neck also pops back in pretty much the same place every time, saving a lot of extra intonation twiddling if you have to remove or loosen the neck to adjust the truss rod, clean the fretboard, etc... This is where I prefer to have more than a thin layer of wood between the neck heel and the pickup rout. It's just security for the neck joint to be as strong and stable as possible.