Ultimate Fretless tone

[the low one]

This is the ultimate fretless tone I'd like to get. Guy Pratt playing a passive Lakland jazz fretless.



He's using Status half wound strings. How do you set the pickup balance and EQ for this tone ? I'm not sure if it's both pickups on full with the mids cranked or the bridge pickup with lows added.

 

[mattygbass]

gorgous song

 

[Fretlessboy]

not sure if this helps or not

 

[Mr. Ray]

Hi There are many factors that effect the "mwah". The most important is the action of your bass and your hand vibrato that is giving you the effect. Type of strings,fingerboard wood, pickups etc. amp/settings effect how it is reproduced but it starts with your hand/technique. A great fretless player can get that sound on different rigs and different basses.

 

[Fretlessboy]

I agree %100. The proof is in getting your tone and then handing your bass to some one else to play. See what happens to the tone. How it changes and how it reacts to touch and changes in touch.

On the gear side I have very few criteria as far as fretless basses are concerned.
#1) an ebony fingerboard
#2) round wound strings

The rest is a mute point. A rig that is smooth and has a great mid pressence without an annoying honk and I am good.

Hi There are many factors that effect the "mwah". The most important is the action of your bass and your hand vibrato that is giving you the effect. Type of strings,fingerboard wood, pickups etc. amp/settings effect how it is reproduced but it starts with your hand/technique. A great fretless player can get that sound on different rigs and different basses.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I find this produces what "I" think of "MWAH". I've heard of the Euphonic Audio stuff, but its a little pricey (looks very high qaulity, though). How would, say, an Avatar 1x12 stack up against it, taking price into account?

A pair of EA VL110s (discontinued) kills with fretless. I doubt the Avatar would yield as complex a sound based on the Avatars I've checked out. Not saying they're in any way substandard, just that the 3 way VL110s seem to give an accurate representation of what I'm doing and what I'm working with.

My VL208 is no slouch either. Nor are the VL210s for that matter. Can you tell I like the old VL series transmission line EAs?


I get mwah at the bridge or near the end of the fingerboard and anywhere in between. The type of mwah varies. Many times it requires little to no vibrato on my part. Great setup helps tremendously. Experimenting with the fretless helps even more.


I only use roundwounds, usually Nickel, mainly DR Sunbeams, Ken Smith Burners on my Zon Legacy Standard 5. No wear issues on any of my basses.

 

[unlined4string]

+1 on the EA VL series cabs for fretless. I also like the CXL-112 for fretless. The CXL-112 is a bit harsh sounding when heard alone, but in a band setting with fretless it really cuts through the mix. The CXL-112 is my first choice cabinet for playing fretless in a bad sounding (boomy) room. For a nice sounding room I like a pair of VL-110's.

 

[the low one]

There's a lot of talk about speakers and cabs etc but most of the time I'm relying on the 2 pickups my bass and EQ from my preamp as everything the audiance hears goes via the DI. to get the passive fretless tone I like.

 

[dannybuoy]

I disagree that the roundwounds are essential - I'm using Status Hotwire Halfwounds and they have tons more mwah than the d'Addario rounds that came fitted with my bass. More mwah than you can shake a stick at, plus smoother on the fingers and the fretboard!

 

[Fretlessboy]

 

[moon-bass]

+1 on the setup. Low action makes getting mwah easier.

A hard fretboard is also important. Rosewood is good, ebony better, coated even better. I learned a trick many years ago from a well-known luthier - use a polymizerizing (is that a word?) oil on your fretless neck. I use boiled linseed oil, but pure tung will work as well. The oil hardens as it "dries" creating a harder surface, increasing mwah potential.

Roundwounds are good, but half-rounds also work. I get plenty of mwah with a fretless that I have half rounds on. I had flats on my Warwick fretless for awhile, and still got mwah ....

One of the keys here is to listen to the bass acoustically. If you aren't getting mwah without an amp, you won't get mwah with an amp.

For amps - 10's, 12's seem to be best for me. My favorite mwah "rig" is a pair of Aggie 12's with an Acoustic Image head, but I get plenty out of my Roland and Eden rigs as well. A number of amps work well. I don't think it's as much as an amp function as it is a bass function.

Bumping up the higher mids will increase mwah - depending on the bass, I would start with 500-600 and maybe go up to 1k. Boost frequencies in that range, see what sounds best for your bass. The key really is the mids, so a parametric (or semi-parametric) EQ really helps. Some basses may sound a little nasally, so you may want to cut the highs a little.

Hope this helps.

 

[alangrus]

I always wanted my electric bass to sound like a Double Bass, but way easier to play and carry and amplify. So I have played fretless since 1974. Then I heard Jaco and it was all over.

Starting with the instrument itself, the more wooden sounding and full range the pickups are, the better. I always like real Ebony neck to resonate, but Michael Manring gets a lot of mileage out of a Carbon Fiber neck.

Most guys here like the round wounds, I like the Tomasik Invenld Jazz Bass strings for that. Lately I have been liking the La Bella Deep Talking Bass nylon tape wounds. Cool on a black ebony neck.

Link Removed


For amps, the preamp is important. I need a tube preamp, either built-in or as an external pre like the ART Tune MP. That brings out the woody tone.

I noticed consensus about using 12" speakers. Thats all I will use for any Bass, though a quality 4x10 makes sense for the mids. I love my Avatar SB112 cabs
http://www.avatarspeakers.com/sB112.htm

I have two, one for smaller gigs, a stack for larger gigs.


From the other side of the aisle, band leaders often tell me they HATE the nasal midrange honk of most fretless Basses, especially when played sharp. Dude, don't be a Honky! Fret so that the right side of your finger lines up with the note, not the middle of your finger. Otherwise, your fingerboard finger on the "fret postition" is sharp by half the width of your finger.

 

[Kael]

Dude, don't be a Honky! Fret so that the right side of your finger lines up with the note, not the middle of your finger. Otherwise, your fingerboard finger on the "fret postition" is sharp by half the width of your finger.

Please note this post was meant to be conversational in nature and not attacking you there. Insert requisite smiley's to convey that.

That advice is totally dependent on how you intonate the note. If you utilize the tip of your finger to press down on the string you'll get a different timbre than if you use a more meaty section. Where you place your finger to intonate the note correctly depends on the tone you are chasing and how your are intonating. You can't just tell everyone to line their finers up the same way.

I'm also of the opinion that occasionally playing ever so slightly sharp can lend a sense of urgency to a passage. It isn't that should be done constantly, nor should it be done unintentionally, but it can be tastefully utilized. Same thing with playing slightly flat. Hell if I always wanted to play with the same pitch set, I'd be playing a fretted bass.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I've tried the almost roundwounds and nothing IME gives me the same sound as roundwounds. My favorite fretless sounds that I've ever encountered are still the three I own: Zon Legacy Standard fretless 5 with IIRC phenolic board and my two Brubakers, five and six string, both with Ebony boards finished with polyurethane. Have to be heard to be believed. They're all hard hitting fretlesses that can purr if you want them to.

 

[gbarchus]

One of the things I like about TalkBass is the varied responses, everyone describing how they get their sound. And there are thousands of ways. I especially like when people use sound clips or videos. Words aren't needed so much after listening. I wish my studio was set up now. I'm in the process of converting my living room.

I have three fretless basses: a CIJ '62 Jazz bass with an HG Thor epoxy coated neck, an F-Bass BNF5, and my favorite '66 PBass that wouldn't take another refretting without replacing the beautiful Brazilian rosewood fingerboard.

I play almost exclusively with the bridge pickup except to add some bass response with the neck pickup ever so slightly to accommodate for room acoustics. I use a tube amp (Mesa Boogie D-180 w/6L6s, Eden VT300 w/6550s or Sadowsky SA200 w/EL34s) to get some compression and overdrive with a 15" JBL, my preference being an alnico K145.

Can I get my sound with a different bass, or a SS amp, or 10" speakers?

PROBABLY

...but I like my choices. Actually, I'd like to try to get my sound with a Hiwatt (or Reeves) 200 watt amp with a sealed 4X12 cabinet with alnico Fane speakers.

I enjoy reading your posts!

Gale

 

[the low one]

This is nice

You hear the bass playing solo at 2:57
It's a mobile recording, not DVD quality so no fancy studio EQ'ing has taken place. I think it's a Lakland with half wound strings.

 

[Eublet]

While I personally thought the Eden 112xlt was an oddball for electric bass, it seemed to have perfect voicing for fretless. If you want some deep lows to compliment it, you'll need an extension cab of another kind to get it. The 112xlt has a very rich, nasally mid that sounded rather horrible to me for fretted instruments, but it made a fretless bass really sing. Put a 210xst underneath and it was a total killer setup for both fretted and fretless.

 

[ChrisPbass]

While I personally thought the Eden 112xlt was an oddball for electric bass, it seemed to have perfect voicing for fretless. If you want some deep lows to compliment it, you'll need an extension cab of another kind to get it. The 112xlt has a very rich, nasally mid that sounded rather horrible to me for fretted instruments, but it made a fretless bass really sing. Put a 210xst underneath and it was a total killer setup for both fretted and fretless.

I bought a Schroeder 1x12 before I began playing fretless and did not like it much at all. SERIOUS buyers remorse but you plug a fretless into it and put a 2x10 (avatar in my case) and there ya go...

 

[calypsobomber]

old thread but i dont care whatever. It is important to understand what frequncies do in the spectrum. The more knowledge you have of adjusting a spectral eq with other instruments, the more you will understand the characteristics of your bass tone.
For bass:
20-60hz will add low end presence. too much will cause mud.

60-250hz makes it fat or thin. too much makes it boomy.

250-700hz is the honk zone. you will find low "mwah" harmonics picked up here. too much will drown out vocals and alot of rhythm guitar

800hz-1000khz is the slap and pop range. too much here will pierce your eardrums.

2000khz-4000khz is an extremely important range for bass. It accentuates vowels in any instrument and is one of the keys to good fretless tone. Too much hear causes ear fatigue.

4000-6000khz is the presence range. Boost this to cut through the mix and cut it to sit behind other instruments.

6000-20000khz is the brilliance range. High end harmonics, fret noise, and air can be found out here and in most cases should be trimmed down to your preference. too much here will muddy up the highs.

So now that you can use this for a tone building reference keep in mind that cutting from one part of the frequency range is the key to making other parts of the frequency range stand out. Harmonics play a huge role as well. All keys area actually a frequency. Their harmonics are their relative frequencies found in relative octaves. The note "C" for instance is literally the frequencies 16hz, 32hz, 64hz, 128hz, 256hz, 512hz, 1024khz, 2048khz, 4096khz, 8192khz, 16384khz, and 32768khz. Every note has an applicable frequency that repeats itself throughout the entire audible frequency spectrum. Boost and cut the harmonics of the key you play in and this too will help you to find your "mwah" sounds based on the key that you prefer to play in. Hope this helps.

 

[calypsobomber]

old thread but i dont care whatever. It is important to understand what frequncies do in the spectrum. The more knowledge you have of adjusting a spectral eq with other instruments, the more you will understand the characteristics of your bass tone.
For bass:
20-60hz will add low end presence. too much will cause mud.

60-250hz makes it fat or thin. too much makes it boomy.

250-700hz is the honk zone. you will find low "mwah" harmonics picked up here. too much will drown out vocals and alot of rhythm guitar

800hz-1000khz is the slap and pop range. too much here will pierce your eardrums.

2000khz-4000khz is an extremely important range for bass. It accentuates vowels in any instrument and is one of the keys to good fretless tone. Too much hear causes ear fatigue.

4000-6000khz is the presence range. Boost this to cut through the mix and cut it to sit behind other instruments.

6000-20000khz is the brilliance range. High end harmonics, fret noise, and air can be found out here and in most cases should be trimmed down to your preference. too much here will muddy up the highs.

So now that you can use this for a tone building reference keep in mind that cutting from one part of the frequency range is the key to making other parts of the frequency range stand out. Harmonics play a huge role as well. All keys area actually a frequency. Their harmonics are their relative frequencies found in relative octaves. The note "C" for instance is literally the frequencies 16hz, 32hz, 64hz, 128hz, 256hz, 512hz, 1024khz, 2048khz, 4096khz, 8192khz, 16384khz, and 32768khz. Every note has an applicable frequency that repeats itself throughout the entire audible frequency spectrum. Boost and cut the harmonics of the key you play in and this too will help you to find your "mwah" sounds based on the key that you prefer to play in. Hope this helps.