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Uncle GAS Needs You: Help Design an All Tube Amp!!!

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Fretless5verfan said:
Haha joker, i thought i was the only guy on the east coast still online! :p Time flys sitting in front of the comp practicing and checkin' TB. (you have a PM from me!)

(This is open to anyone being that i'm sure brad is sick of my posts by now hehe :Hyper:)

What would the theoretical benefits of having a tube FX loop be? Are there any units out there with tube driven FX loops already?

The benefit of a tube driven FX loop is that you can control the SEND and RETURN levels. Also because you'll be BUFFERING the send, I'm told that the tone is more consistent as the input impedance of various inline types of devices can vary. A tube driven FX loop would be more flexible. We'll have to see.
 
Fretless5verfan said:
Haha joker, i thought i was the only guy on the east coast still online! :p Time flys sitting in front of the comp practicing and checkin' TB.

too much coffee, too many cover tunes to polish for an audition here :cool:

I was going to reply earlier... but felt I needed more time to think about my needs. I am 100% happy with my current set up, but am flirting with the idea of a 100 to 200 watt head (Orange is my first choice at this point).

If I was to have something made "For Me"

I'd be looking at:

1.) ECC32 / CV181 or 6SN7 front end.
2.) Tube compressor (switched for bypass)
3.) 6550/ KT88 power tubes
4.) 3 band eq with mid freq adjustment
5.) Resonance and Presence controls
6.) pre eq & compressor 'Live Sound' DI
7.) 'Studio' DI inline with speaker output.
 
James Hart said:
too much coffee, too many cover tunes to polish for an audition here :cool:

I was going to reply earlier... but felt I needed more time to think about my needs. I am 100% happy with my current set up, but am flirting with the idea of a 100 to 200 watt head (Orange is my first choice at this point).

If I was to have something made "For Me"

I'd be looking at:

1.) ECC32 / CV181 or 6SN7 front end.
2.) Tube compressor (switched for bypass)
3.) 6550/ KT88 power tubes
4.) 3 band eq with mid freq adjustment
5.) Resonance and Presence controls
6.) pre eq & compressor 'Live Sound' DI
7.) 'Studio' DI inline with speaker output.

This may be something for you!

Jackson Ampworks Bass Amp - Preliminary Specs

1.) 6SL7 front end
2.) 6550/KT88 power tubes (Quad)
3.) 2 band eq (Bass and Treble) with mid freq adjustment
4.) Resonance and Presence controls
5.) 'Studio' DI inline with speaker output

Sound close? ;)
 
JacksonAmpworks said:
This may be something for you!

Jackson Ampworks Bass Amp - Preliminary Specs

1.) 6SL7 front end
2.) 6550/KT88 power tubes (Quad)
3.) 2 band eq (Bass and Treble) with mid freq adjustment
4.) Resonance and Presence controls
5.) 'Studio' DI inline with speaker output

Sound close? ;)

oh... my... lawdy...

i think i just peed myself. :rolleyes: :o :D



but now, what is a guy to do? am i gonna have to make room beside my Sadowsky SA200? oi...
 
jokerjkny said:
oh... my... lawdy...

i think i just peed myself. :rolleyes: :o :D

but now, what is a guy to do? am i gonna have to make room beside my Sadowsky SA200? oi...

Ha! The thing to do now is come up with a KILLER name for it! Since I was wanting this amp to cop some of the 60's tones, I had thought about calling it something like the "Wrecking Crew" or "Wrecking Ball".

Your thoughts?
 
James Hart said:
too much coffee, too many cover tunes to polish for an audition here :cool:

I was going to reply earlier... but felt I needed more time to think about my needs. I am 100% happy with my current set up, but am flirting with the idea of a 100 to 200 watt head (Orange is my first choice at this point).

If I was to have something made "For Me"

I'd be looking at:

1.) ECC32 / CV181 or 6SN7 front end.
2.) Tube compressor (switched for bypass)
3.) 6550/ KT88 power tubes
4.) 3 band eq with mid freq adjustment
5.) Resonance and Presence controls
6.) pre eq & compressor 'Live Sound' DI
7.) 'Studio' DI inline with speaker output.

Good call on the compressor!! That'd be great to have on board. IIRC that was one of the things that made the V8 so tempting to me. It's also the only thing making me weary about the SA200. I do so dig a little compression to boost my harmonics a tad for my songs where i go a little manthing/hedges :D I'd buy almost any all tube amp that had all those features and a seperate gain/master so you could dial in a little (lot) of tube-grit and still keep the volume down.

I'd REALLY love to have 2 footswtichable channels with seperate EQs. That way you could switch between a perfectly clean tone (EQ'ed to liking) and a OD'ed tone (Eq'ed to a different liking). I've been dying for something like this for the many gigs (now almost all) where my band segues from a rock/jazz fusion song to funk/jazz fusion (think niacin to adam nitti) with no time for me to re'EQ and adjust the drive.
 
One thing you might want to consider is looking at all of the existing tube amp offerings from the various manufacturers and finding out what they are lacking from model to model. There has to be something other than brand loyalty that makes someone get a Mesa 400+ over an SVT for instance, and then there are amps like the Trace V8 on the used market that are coveted over the stuff that can be had new.

My dream tube amp feature set is found in the Peavey Classic 400. If I were designing a tube amp, that would be my starting point because a lot of the others seem to be one trick rock ponies. I appreciate the simplicity of something like the Orange AD200, but at two grand I really want more than just "that is such great tone". I'd hype the versatility to make it easier to stomach the purchase, which would result in changes in the following areas:

Form factor: The first thing I'd do is offer lighter weight 200 and/or 300 watt versions to go with the 400. I would for sure make a version in its own case and a version that's rackable because you'll never satisfy everyone by picking one over the other and it's easy to offer both. For the "case" version I would put real handles on, none of this spring loaded side handle junk. The "case" version would come with endcaps of some sort like the SWR Electric Blue. I would definitely make the tubes visible from the front.

Preamp features: I might make the clean channel EQ be full parametric. I would either go nuts and add a multiband compressor similar to Trace Elliot's SMX circuit, or go simple and do something similar to the Thunderfunk defeatable limiter attached to the gain control. The pre/post EQ effects loops might be cool as well.

Interface: DI would for sure go on the front. There would be no cheezy plastic in/out toggle buttons, everything would be a solid switch or a switch knob. At least one jewel light. And either black or chrome.. none of this awful SWR chrome on black stuff. All EQ/volume/gain/etc knobs would either be large in diameter or use detented pots. I would make it possible to have an SWR IOD-style pedal that would allow gradual blending between clean and dirty.

Cooling: I would look at the technology offered in the computer world when thinking about cooling, because there's so much really quiet/effective hardware and schemes that people are developing nowadays that there's no reason to have a single loud fan in a head anymore. The Powermac G5 is a great example of this with its multiple zone cooling and several fans running at slow speed. Installing three fans running at half speed would offer quietness and redundancy.

Output: I know it's only a couple hundred watts, but a speakon jack would be really nice. I hate seeing only a 1/4" jack on something because nobody thinks the watts are high enough to justify a speakon. Having those lock is great peace of mind.

That's all I can think of offhand. Hope it helps. :)
 
Fretless5verfan said:
Good call on the compressor!! That'd be great to have on board. IIRC that was one of the things that made the V8 so tempting to me. It's also the only thing making me weary about the SA200. I do so dig a little compression to boost my harmonics a tad for my songs where i go a little manthing/hedges :D I'd buy almost any all tube amp that had all those features and a seperate gain/master so you could dial in a little (lot) of tube-grit and still keep the volume down.

I'd REALLY love to have 2 footswtichable channels with seperate EQs. That way you could switch between a perfectly clean tone (EQ'ed to liking) and a OD'ed tone (Eq'ed to a different liking). I've been dying for something like this for the many gigs (now almost all) where my band segues from a rock/jazz fusion song to funk/jazz fusion (think niacin to adam nitti) with no time for me to re'EQ and adjust the drive.


I hear what you're saying regarding the compressor. Would a compressor pedal or rack mount unit work in the FX loop or before the amp?

Also regarding the channel switching, that is a really cool idea, the only problem being that I don't think I have enough real estate available to incorporate a separate channel. I'm trying to keep the size of the unit down so I can keep the weight down as well. If you look at some of the pics of my amps, (Link Removed ) I'm using a Stainless Steel chassis in order to make the amp completely bulletproof and the only drawback to Stainless is the weight. I chose Stainless instead of Aluminum as I've seen WAY too many transformers be ripped off of an aluminum chassis when the amplifier was dropped.

I really do dig your idea about the extra gain... I'll stew on it for a while and see what I can come up with.

Thanks for the suggestion!
 
msquared said:
One thing you might want to consider is looking at all of the existing tube amp offerings from the various manufacturers and finding out what they are lacking from model to model. There has to be something other than brand loyalty that makes someone get a Mesa 400+ over an SVT for instance, and then there are amps like the Trace V8 on the used market that are coveted over the stuff that can be had new.

My dream tube amp feature set is found in the Peavey Classic 400. If I were designing a tube amp, that would be my starting point because a lot of the others seem to be one trick rock ponies. I appreciate the simplicity of something like the Orange AD200, but at two grand I really want more than just "that is such great tone". I'd hype the versatility to make it easier to stomach the purchase, which would result in changes in the following areas:

Form factor: The first thing I'd do is offer lighter weight 200 and/or 300 watt versions to go with the 400. I would for sure make a version in its own case and a version that's rackable because you'll never satisfy everyone by picking one over the other and it's easy to offer both. For the "case" version I would put real handles on, none of this spring loaded side handle junk. The "case" version would come with endcaps of some sort like the SWR Electric Blue. I would definitely make the tubes visible from the front.

Preamp features: I might make the clean channel EQ be full parametric. I would either go nuts and add a multiband compressor similar to Trace Elliot's SMX circuit, or go simple and do something similar to the Thunderfunk defeatable limiter attached to the gain control. The pre/post EQ effects loops might be cool as well.

Interface: DI would for sure go on the front. There would be no cheezy plastic in/out toggle buttons, everything would be a solid switch or a switch knob. At least one jewel light. And either black or chrome.. none of this awful SWR chrome on black stuff. All EQ/volume/gain/etc knobs would either be large in diameter or use detented pots. I would make it possible to have an SWR IOD-style pedal that would allow gradual blending between clean and dirty.

Cooling: I would look at the technology offered in the computer world when thinking about cooling, because there's so much really quiet/effective hardware and schemes that people are developing nowadays that there's no reason to have a single loud fan in a head anymore. The Powermac G5 is a great example of this with its multiple zone cooling and several fans running at slow speed. Installing three fans running at half speed would offer quietness and redundancy.

Output: I know it's only a couple hundred watts, but a speakon jack would be really nice. I hate seeing only a 1/4" jack on something because nobody thinks the watts are high enough to justify a speakon. Having those lock is great peace of mind.

That's all I can think of offhand. Hope it helps. :)


Great stuff! You should really take a look at how I build my amps. The cooling fan, I'm way ahead of you on that one! :)

Link Removed

Since all of my amps are handwired, turret board amplifiers, I'm not able to add as many features as some of the manufacturers to who use PC boards. Each method of contruction has its benefits, however for the sake of tone and reliability I have chosen to use the hand wired approach.

The features list is slightly shorter on a hand wired amp, but the tone is unrivaled!
 
I just got done checking out pics and clips of your current amps. I suggest everyone go check those out because if the bass amp turns out as slick as those guitar amps look/sound i think we're in for a serious treat! The tones just NAIL the sounds they are stated to go after IMO (check out back in black for an ex.)

The speak-ons give me a good sense of security, it's kickass you'll be able to include them!

I hear ya on the real estate thing. You definately don't want it too cluttered and heavy (or badly ventiliated). A compressor would definately work before hand or in the FX loop, but i'm one of those guys that likes to just take the head and be done with it. I'd like to have it in the head but it's really no deal breaker being that you mentioned everything is hand wired. If the bass amp looks as cool and retro as the guitar amps i'd just say screw the compressor because i wouldn't want to have to ruin the sweet look of it sitting on top of my NV215 with an ugly rack :D

Yea the channel thing is a little much to ask for any head which is why it was sort of a tack on thing. The pedal i was referring to was the one ms mentioned where you could dial in OD on the fly. If that could be done without altering the volume that'd be insanely cool. it'd almost get rid of the want for the 2 channels.

And for the name, your trend is locale oreinted, so i'll toss in "Lone Star" and "Raging Bull" :D
 
Fretless5verfan said:
I just got done checking out pics and clips of your current amps. I suggest everyone go check those out because if the bass amp turns out as slick as those guitar amps look/sound i think we're in for a serious treat! The tones just NAIL the sounds they are stated to go after IMO (check out back in black for an ex.)

The speak-ons give me a good sense of security, it's kickass you'll be able to include them!

I hear ya on the real estate thing. You definately don't want it too cluttered and heavy (or badly ventiliated). A compressor would definately work before hand or in the FX loop, but i'm one of those guys that likes to just take the head and be done with it. I'd like to have it in the head but it's really no deal breaker being that you mentioned everything is hand wired. If the bass amp looks as cool and retro as the guitar amps i'd just say screw the compressor because i wouldn't want to have to ruin the sweet look of it sitting on top of my NV215 with an ugly rack :D

Yea the channel thing is a little much to ask for any head which is why it was sort of a tack on thing. The pedal i was referring to was the one ms mentioned where you could dial in OD on the fly. If that could be done without altering the volume that'd be insanely cool. it'd almost get rid of the want for the 2 channels.

And for the name, your trend is locale oreinted, so i'll toss in "Lone Star" and "Raging Bull" :D


Man thanks so much for your kind words... you honor me. :) Tell you what, I'll put speakon's on the there just for you. :D

I'm afraid that Mesa already has me beat on the Lone Star name. Believe me I thought about that one. :rolleyes:

The Bass Amp will be the exact same size and look as the rest of my amps. That's in large part why I want to keep the head small. Keeping it small makes it portable and keeps the weight down. I'm strongly considering using Toroidal transformers on this amp to further keep the weight down. I hear great things about them in bass amps.

Thanks again for your kindness. You guys have really made my night. :)
 
When i owned my V8. i was scared to turn it up too loud for fear of damaging tubes via vibrations...vibration from a knock and from sound is still vibration...i would think about a thin layer of insulation on the bottom or something to protect the tubes a little more than just heft.

Dont make the grill metal like the V8...go with a more marshall like mesh...i know its not as cool, but stuff getting is is very very bad...and sometimes it can be hell to clean.
Besides you would still see the tubes glowing through the mesh wouldnt you???

fuse by pairs is a must...If a tube blows on stage, i'd rather have 100w instead of 200w rather than just die then and there...i dont know any tube amp user in my area that carries spare tubes and/or can change them fast enough to contine a show...and the fuse has to be something readily available. I know some companies have used light bulbs in speaker cabinets to protect the horn, but in some cases they use bulbs that are damn near impossible to find.

umm thats all i can think of right now
 
Passinwind said:
So how are you going to protect the amp against open-load operation failure with a Speakon?

I'll look into that. Normally with Switchcraft jacks I just have the primary jack be a shorting jack. That protects the circuit if you play it without a load. Once you plug in, you break that circuit and it's business as usual.

I'll read up on this and see what i find. Your point is well taken though.
 
thumbman said:
When i owned my V8. i was scared to turn it up too loud for fear of damaging tubes via vibrations...vibration from a knock and from sound is still vibration...i would think about a thin layer of insulation on the bottom or something to protect the tubes a little more than just heft.

Dont make the grill metal like the V8...go with a more marshall like mesh...i know its not as cool, but stuff getting is is very very bad...and sometimes it can be hell to clean.
Besides you would still see the tubes glowing through the mesh wouldnt you???

fuse by pairs is a must...If a tube blows on stage, i'd rather have 100w instead of 200w rather than just die then and there...i dont know any tube amp user in my area that carries spare tubes and/or can change them fast enough to contine a show...and the fuse has to be something readily available. I know some companies have used light bulbs in speaker cabinets to protect the horn, but in some cases they use bulbs that are damn near impossible to find.

umm thats all i can think of right now


Vibration is certainly a concern given the 6SL7 preamp tubes. I've done some experimenting with these tubes in the past and vibration dampeners so I have some good ideas on how to negate the effects of vibration on these tubes.
 
thumbman said:
When i owned my V8. i was scared to turn it up too loud for fear of damaging tubes via vibrations...vibration from a knock and from sound is still vibration...i would think about a thin layer of insulation on the bottom or something to protect the tubes a little more than just heft.

Dont make the grill metal like the V8...go with a more marshall like mesh...i know its not as cool, but stuff getting is is very very bad...and sometimes it can be hell to clean.
Besides you would still see the tubes glowing through the mesh wouldnt you???

fuse by pairs is a must...If a tube blows on stage, i'd rather have 100w instead of 200w rather than just die then and there...i dont know any tube amp user in my area that carries spare tubes and/or can change them fast enough to contine a show...and the fuse has to be something readily available. I know some companies have used light bulbs in speaker cabinets to protect the horn, but in some cases they use bulbs that are damn near impossible to find.

umm thats all i can think of right now


Regarding the grille, I use stainless steel perf metal for my back grille's. Check out this pic.

atlantic_rear.jpg


Regarding the fuses, the type of fuse holder I use has an extra fuse built in. ;)
 
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