• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Understanding Pricing

Whil57

Whil57

Aug 7, 2013
420
388
Long Island
#1
What i'm trying to figure out is the current high cost on alot of P and Jazz style basses (copies included). 30 years ago any other shape and design usually cost more than the mass produced Fender. I have never been able to use them as i never felt they had the right feel for me. But now as i'm looking to possibly pick up a body to mod myself because i cant seem to get exactly what i want, i do acknowledge that that type of shape is definitely the most convenient from sitting to standing and balance. I recently tried G&L and Sandborn. I thought the G&L were horrible from a playing perspective. And the price tag of 1200 and up? Really! Right now it seems one can get an exotic wood bass alot cheaper than these alder bodied name brands. Why? What is it that people will lay double for a Fender because its a Fender. So if i pick up something i feel that fits me, but later decide i dont like, selling it is a nightmare.
Why? Cause it doesnt say Fender.Whats the deal with that?
 
#2
I guess it has to do with Fender being the one company that first built a commercially successful electric bass, and setting the standards that many builders still follow. Since Fender pioneered on that field, it is also logical to asume that vintage fender basses are expensive because they are in mny cases a piece of history.

Not only Fender built the first well known basses, but it continues to do so, and with reasonable quality (I say reasonable because some instruments are lemons, some others are truly gems). To sum it up, Fender has been a very relevant company in terms of its influence in both bass building and the music industry in general.
 
#4
Maybe you should check out one of the other 11 million weekly threads on this subject. But I'll sum it up for you...

The price people charge for gear is what it is, and you can either pay or do without.
 
#6
Welcome to the market economy. Products simply sell for the price people are prepared to pay, it doesn't only relate to what it actually costs to produce and market an item.

You as a customer has all the power though. If you don't like the price - don't buy. Some seem to be insulted and make the mistake they somehow are entitled, that there is a human right to buy something at a certain (lower) price point. There isn't.
 
#7
Whil57 said:
What i'm trying to figure out is the current high cost on alot of P and Jazz style basses (copies included). 30 years ago any other shape and design usually cost more than the mass produced Fender. I have never been able to use them as i never felt they had the right feel for me. But now as i'm looking to possibly pick up a body to mod myself because i cant seem to get exactly what i want, i do acknowledge that that type of shape is definitely the most convenient from sitting to standing and balance. I recently tried G&L and Sandborn. I thought the G&L were horrible from a playing perspective. And the price tag of 1200 and up? Really! Right now it seems one can get an exotic wood bass alot cheaper than these alder bodied name brands. Why? What is it that people will lay double for a Fender because its a Fender. So if i pick up something i feel that fits me, but later decide i dont like, selling it is a nightmare.
Why? Cause it doesnt say Fender.Whats the deal with that?
Click to expand...

What's a Sandborn? Where are these "exotic wood' basses that people can buy that are cheaper than a P-bass? What time to the bars close in Long Island?


You think $1,200 is expensive for a US-made bass?? Do you know what a Fender P-bass cost in 1960? $229.50. Do you know what that translates to in 2013 dollars? $1,796.00!!! When factoring inflation, the cost of a Fender has gone DOWN, not up over the years.
 
#9
well, the other day i drove 30 miles to check out the G&L. The guy in the store gave me a few to play along with the Sandberg. Its a new company he said from Germany.It actually had faster action than the G&L and the price tag was 950. You can google them, not hard to find. Wasnt overly impressed with playability but did seem very solid. As far as extoic wood, BC Rich is making mahogony bodies, ESP has ash bodies instead of alder,there's alot out there (although as one of you posted who knows how the wood gets cured). I guess its my nad for wanting a thin feeling neck, as i recently found out is not very popular. Thats part of my search problem.
 
#10
And also regarding the made in America, unfotunately that aint what it use to be. I want an American car, clothes and anything i can get. But i know people who dumped their American Fenders to get the Mex. They like the feel better, although admit tone loss. I dont think on the new stuff the American manufacture is what it use to be. I would gladly lay out the money, but not when they arent making what i'm looking for.
 
#12
I recently picked up a 2012 Fender American P5. I have to say it is the first P that I truly bonded with (my first bass was a '76 P). I think Fender is coming out with some very fine products right now. Often they need adjustments right out of the box to maximize playability. But that's why they are pretty easy to adjust.

Maybe the Fender style just doesn't work for you. A lot of people feel that way.

Bones
 
#13
Whil57 said:
And also regarding the made in America, unfotunately that aint what it use to be. I want an American car, clothes and anything i can get. But i know people who dumped their American Fenders to get the Mex. They like the feel better, although admit tone loss. I dont think on the new stuff the American manufacture is what it use to be. I would gladly lay out the money, but not when they arent making what i'm looking for.
Click to expand...
I still think the American Fenders are better than the others. Subjective, of course, but I went MIA for the last two Fenders I bought because I like them better than most MIM's and MIJ's.
 
#14
I buy and sell collectables for a living and am the biggest at what we do in the world. Let me start out by saying there is no money to be made in bass guitars unless you really buy them cheaply and then your ancestors' ancestors sell them. I'm sure you can make a couple hundred bucks here and there, but that's a tough way to make a living.

I compare the Fender premium to Rolex watches, especially the Submariner - the first dive watch. The basses/watches command a premium over sometimes superior competitors because of their iconic status. Their are innumerable products to compare each to (Fender guitars and basses and Rolex watches), but each brand's history of introducing iconic models and then famous people using the products gives the brands' products a gestalt.

Further, how these products sell once they become vintage mirror each other. You can pay $15,000 for a 1950's Precision and $50,000 for a 1950s Rolex Submariner. The changes over the years in cosmetics, build quality, innovations, transitional years, etc. - it all adds up to desirable collectables.

From a marketing perspective, and there is a ton of research on this, people pursue brands that they feel reflect their personal qualities and it's reciprocal. Consumers feel that using a product shows their worth and it impacts their esteem.

The power of a brand is super impactful and usually the first to introduce a product or perfect a product wins the branding battle. Hence why people pay more for Fender guitars and basses than the competitors. Not to mention they sound better :-)
 
#15
Cost of goods, labor, marketing etc do play a role. Margins are what move based on supply and demand.

A company can't sell a bass for a loss on every deal and expect to make up for it in volume.

Margins at the low end tend to be thinnest, not only in absolute dollars, but also in percentages as well.
 
#16
Whil57 said:
well, the other day i drove 30 miles to check out the G&L. The guy in the store gave me a few to play along with the Sandberg. Its a new company he said from Germany.It actually had faster action than the G&L and the price tag was 950. You can google them, not hard to find. Wasnt overly impressed with playability but did seem very solid. As far as extoic wood, BC Rich is making mahogony bodies, ESP has ash bodies instead of alder,there's alot out there (although as one of you posted who knows how the wood gets cured). I guess its my nad for wanting a thin feeling neck, as i recently found out is not very popular. Thats part of my search problem.
Click to expand...

Most of us know how to Google. If someone posts about trying out a Scudooski and no one has heard of it, don't blame the responder. :eyebrow: Maybe the store you visited doesn't set up the basses that come in (most don't) so the ones you tried weren't up to expectations. I've never handled a G&L that wasn't fantastic or couldn't be setup to be fantastic. Or a Sunburke for that matter.;)

Maybe a US ESP is what you want?

Yes, the brands you mentioned have bodies made from ash and mahogany, but the US-made versions are expensive. Way more than the standard Fender US models.
 
#17
Well Rob, i do believe you nailed it with the iconic thing. Makes sense from what i see on alot of shows. One thing though, is that even my Fender loving friends will say as far as sound- is no Gibson sound better, they choose the Fender because the Les is to darn heavy. And Immigrant i will look further into the ESP, didnt know they had an American line, but i am waiting a quote from their custom shop.
 
#18
smcd said:
What's a Sandborn? Where are these "exotic wood' basses that people can buy that are cheaper than a P-bass? What time to the bars close in Long Island?


You think $1,200 is expensive for a US-made bass?? Do you know what a Fender P-bass cost in 1960? $229.50. Do you know what that translates to in 2013 dollars? $1,796.00!!! When factoring inflation, the cost of a Fender has gone DOWN, not up over the years.
Click to expand...

Well, technically a 1960-spec American Fender P (AVRI 58 or 63) is retailing for $2K now, and even $1900 with the rebate. There's always a rub sir!

But we all know you're probably referring to the American Standards.
 
#19
Remember to check out Warmoth also. Fantastic quality and you can select exactly what you want. It helps ease the cost if you can do some or all of the work yourself.

Check out the tail end of the Medium Scale Club thread here. There some amazing looking Warmoth builds there to give you an idea of what's possible.

Good luck!
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back