Double Bass Underwood Pickup Club

[Ric Vice]

I haven't tried the Ehrlund, but since it was pointed out somewhere around here that it too is a piezo..I'm guessing that The Band uses similar piezos with a different mounting scheme.

Nothing sounds like the Underwood though, and I'll probably always use one. It's a great, great pickup.

I've always felt that mounting the piezo on the body of my instruments sounds better than putting it in the wing slots. The location of the sensors on the Band are above the bridge while the Ehrlund is attached below it, but they are in the same general area of the bass. I used an Underwood for many years, but bowing just doesn't work.

Ric

 

[drurb]

Les,
I was able to compare the two, and on my main bass, I still felt that the Ehrlund sounded like my instrument does in a studio setting with a high quality condenser microphone. The difference between the two would be the warmth that the Ehrlund has in the low register.

Ric ; < )>

So, for the record then, it seems that the Ehrlund is the best-sounding piezo pickup you've ever played through. Yes?

 

[Ric Vice]

So, for the record then, it seems that the Ehrlund is the best-sounding piezo pickup you've ever played through. Yes?

Les,
Yes, It has the most natural sound on main instrument
and my backup bass.


Ric

 

[MR PC]

But if there's a device the Underwood is the go-to device.
You know the refrain, folks: It's the ear, not the gear. Nobody in the hall is listening to your pickup.

Yup. Still priced nicely, with a great resale value as well.

 

[thmsjordan]

Wow, you guys are awesome!! Thank you so much for your continued support. My dad originally created the pickup for his bass-playing friends and they liked it so much that they spread the word. Now the word continues to circulate because of happy Underwood users such as yourselves, making you all part of a TRULY grass roots musical family!! So beautiful. Thank you again, from me and the Underwoods, still makin' pickups by hand

Thank you guys for years of excellent customer service. I have two Underwoods that I still use. When one of them failed, it was replaced without question and with a big thanks from the Underwood team. Fast forward 20 years and another one started shorting out. One email and it goes back. One week later, another new Underwood arrives, along with a big thanks for using Underwood.

I can't say enough good things about you folks. Love the pickup. Love the service. You have a life long customer. I recommend them to College students on a regular basis. In my humble opinion, it is a must have pickup, regardless of whatever else you use.

 

[Feral Feline]

Yup, the Underwoods are great, Dad & Daughters.
Oh yeah, and my pickup bearing their name; it's been on two of my basses and a friend's, and will see use on my latest bass. So easy to transfer my Underwood pup that my Bband remains in its box untried (though I suppose I'll eventually try it).

BelindaU, thanks for popping by!

 

[WayneDupuis]

I've an older 70's Underwood, both wings; through a Contra series ii into a single 10 ported 2 ohm cab.
I crank the mids down and treble/bright up with bass at 12 o'clock.
I can stand in front of my rig with it cranked and not a peep or a howl.
Underwood cuts in the mix letting me hear the front attach of each note. Both highs and lows very even in volume level.
The Underwood makes me play better. More aggressively without fail.
This said I'm interested in what others have said about lower tension shims, and shim material, and will mess around with that a bit.
Overall I'd never move to a newer pickup.

 

[Don Kasper]

I've an older 70's Underwood, both wings; through a Contra series ii into a single 10 ported 2 ohm cab.
I crank the mids down and treble/bright up with bass at 12 o'clock.
I can stand in front of my rig with it cranked and not a peep or a howl.
Underwood cuts in the mix letting me hear the front attach of each note. Both highs and lows very even in volume level.
The Underwood makes me play better. More aggressively without fail.
This said I'm interested in what others have said about lower tension shims, and shim material, and will mess around with that a bit.
Overall I'd never move to a newer pickup.

Have you ever tried a single Underwood element on the E side wing?
Might be worth a try.
Thanks.

 

[WayneDupuis]

Have you ever tried a single Underwood element on the E side wing?
Might be worth a try.
Thanks.

No I plan to give that a go though. Thank you much.

 

[Ric Vice]

Have you ever tried a single Underwood element on the E side wing?
Might be worth a try.
Thanks.

I hear that many players prefer the sound of the Underwood with only 1 element in place. In a rather lenghty conversation with Don Underwood, we talked at lenght about the Underwood's design, Don designed the pickup to work by sensing both sides of the bridge. So, I guess there are instances where the Underwood works better with only the E side element to cancel phase anomalies.

I do know that the first runs of the Underwood, had thicker elements than the new ones. this required the installe
to remove a little more wood from the inside of each bridge wings, but IMHO they sounded better ballanced and had a nicer timbre. Don also designed a custom version of the pickup, with a dual waffered element, on both sides, that could be thrown in and out of phase. He only did them for Glen Moore.

The Underwood was so succesfull, that Walter Woods had Don send him one, so he could match the input impediance on his MI-100-8 amps, to Don's pickup, thus the input of Walter's amps was set at 1 Meg Ohm.

Ric

 

[Don Kasper]

A few years back, just for sheetzz and gigglzz, I moved the single element from the E wing to the G wing, and was shocked to hear how little of the total, usable output of the/my bridge is coming from the G side.
The E (only) side installation sounds very good, on my particular bass, a Juzek carved, thru a WW Electracoustic and into/out of, a 12" Eminence DIY cab.
Easy to modify:

 

[Roger Mouton]

A few years back, just for sheetzz and gigglzz, I moved the single element from the E wing to the G wing, and was shocked to hear how little of the total, usable output of the/my bridge is coming from the G side.
The E (only) side installation sounds very good, on my particular bass, a Juzek carved, thru a WW Electracoustic and into/out of, a 12" Eminence DIY cab.
Easy to modify:
View attachment 747911

So Don Kasper, a.k.a iona, let me understand this. Your modification (pictured) went onto the G side and it sounded terrible? But on the E side it's OK? Has anyone asked if the two sensing elements of the pick-up as supplied are exactly the same? Did that ever come up in the conversation with Don Underwood? The pick-up mounted, as instructed, might put a specific element on the E side as a way to address the phasing problems some people talk about. I've used Underwood for years and years in all sorts of situations and have never run into phasing issues that I know of.

 

[Ric Vice]

So Don Kasper, a.k.a iona, let me understand this. Your modification (pictured) went onto the G side and it sounded terrible? But on the E side it's OK? Has anyone asked if the two sensing elements of the pick-up as supplied are exactly the same? Did that ever come up in the conversation with Don Underwood? The pick-up mounted, as instructed, might put a specific element on the E side as a way to address the phasing problems some people talk about. I've used Underwood for years and years in all sorts of situations and have never run into phasing issues that I know of.

+1

Nor did I, intrestingly enough, their was apparently a prototype dual element version of the Upton Revolution Solo, but apparently they couldn't bring it into production, because of Don's pattens.

Ric

 

[WayneDupuis]

I just this moment tried this. First (middle) element on the E side and am really supprised by the amount of umph from my bass. Both elements on produce a good sound but takes away from the fatness and initial fast bloom. The bass has even levels of volume across the set of Velvets. What a nice surprise too; that the ticky tack of the highs and board noise is still very audible. These old Underwood pickups are so fine.

 

[Don Kasper]

So Don Kasper, a.k.a iona, let me understand this. Your modification (pictured) went onto the G side and it sounded terrible? But on the E side it's OK? Has anyone asked if the two sensing elements of the pick-up as supplied are exactly the same? Did that ever come up in the conversation with Don Underwood? The pick-up mounted, as instructed, might put a specific element on the E side as a way to address the phasing problems some people talk about. I've used Underwood for years and years in all sorts of situations and have never run into phasing issues that I know of.

Roger M.,
Yes - the G side of the bridge yielded an "unusable" sound: very thin, NO low-end, as I recall. I was shocked, as I anticipated that it might just be a SLIGHTLY brighter sound.
Also - I believe that the 2 elements are identical, but I have no factual evidence for this - I just know that the cable used is a single conductor/shielded, similar in specs to RG-174, a small, coax type of cable that I had some experience with, long ago, in a non-musical situation. So there is an equal mixing of both elements into 1 signal, I believe. I've never heard of anyone reversing the normal position of the E & G elements (as shown in the Underwood installation instructions - Has anybody tried this and noticed an audible difference?).
By the way, I was not seeking to solve any "phasing" issues by using only 1 element, I was only seeing if the Underwood pickup sounded better or worse with just the E side element. I was pleasantly surprised and still have it as my backup. I am now using a B-Band D-1, which is a "3" element design (2 wing and one "under-foot"), BUT, I'm using only the E side wing element - NO G side element or NO underfoot element. I'm very happy with the B-Band products' sound ( I've owned 3 of their pickups), but there have been some long-term reliability issues... I still keep the Underwood as a very reliable and predictable backup.
I met and spoke with Don Underwood back around 1991, or so - he was very gracious with his time regarding the story of the development of his pickup. I always thought that he was a bassist, but he was a saxophonist(?), who was frustrated with the options to amplify the bass. He also was repairing/servicing electronic organs at the time, as I recall, and so had a background in the intersection of sound and electronics.
Thanks for your time and interest.

 

[Don Kasper]

I've always wondered what was inside the brass cover of an Underwood element.
So, I opened up my former single-element U-wood pickup, that finally crapped-out after many trouble-free years:
NOTE - the round, white disk, on the right-flap, is NOT connected - it just floats. The thin, brass(?) foil layer, sticking upright, IS connected to the cable.
Does anybody around here know what I'm looking at?
Thanks.

 

[Tom Lane]

A mess?

 

[Don Kasper]

A mess?

"You think that's a mess, you should see what it's like up here!" - (points to head...)
Thanks.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I've always wondered what was inside the brass cover of an Underwood element.
So, I opened up my former single-element U-wood pickup, that finally crapped-out after many trouble-free years:
NOTE - the round, white disk, on the right-flap, is NOT connected - it just floats. The thin, brass(?) foil layer, sticking upright, IS connected to the cable.
Does anybody around here know what I'm looking at?
Thanks.
View attachment 748795

Well now, isn't that interesting!

Can you tell if the shield of the cable is solders to the brass casing and the inner conductor is soldered to the metallic hexagon? Can you get a few more pics of the other side, maybe in between the insulator and the other side of that metallic hexagon?

I have some ideas, and if it's how I *think* it is, then it's a VERY smart design, as far as overcoming the problems that arise with trying to make electrical connections to flat piezo surfaces and then apply even pressure over the whole of the surface, while also eliminating cable vibration noise.

 

[Don Kasper]

Well now, isn't that interesting!

Can you tell if the shield of the cable is solders to the brass casing and the inner conductor is soldered to the metallic hexagon? Can you get a few more pics of the other side, maybe in between the insulator and the other side of that metallic hexagon?

I have some ideas, and if it's how I *think* it is, then it's a VERY smart design, as far as overcoming the problems that arise with trying to make electrical connections to flat piezo surfaces and then apply even pressure over the whole of the surface, while also eliminating cable vibration noise.

Yes-
The braided shield is connected to the brass casing - it is crimped - not sure if it is soldered.
The conductor is soldered to the metallic (brass?) hexagon.
See below: