Double Bass Underwood Pickup Club

[Don Kasper]

Here ya go...

The ongoing Underwood "1 element or 2 element" discussion prompted me to see if I could adapt my unused "second element" that I removed to make my "1 element" Underwood Pickup. (For that, I simply cut off the G side element and adapted it using an old Fishman BP-100 afterlength mounting system, which I really like.)
I only have 1 of the Fishman mounting systems, so I needed to fabricate some way to mount this leftover Underwood element.
First, I had to remove the Underwood plastic tie-wrap connecting gizmo, and chop off the 1/4in. jack.

Then make the afterlength piece out of 1/32in. brass sheet.
BTFW- This took me a LONG time, and I eff'ed up the first one.
(Measure THRICE, and Cut ONCE!)

This is a Switchcraft Deep Panel Jack, commonly used in the BG world for side-mounting the output signal on solid body basses.
I used 3 layers (total) of shrink-wrap tubing to protect the connection and to cover the jack.

Difficult to see in the pics, but I added some felt-like material to cushion the afterlength bracket and reduce the chance of any rattles.
I will install it on my bass tomorrow for a test run, just to be sure it's working normally.
I did confirm that it is producing some sort of signal, uninstalled, FYI.
I need a drink...
Thanks.

Last edited: Nov 11, 2017

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Why heatshrink and not a hardier metal screw-on cap?

Is this a modification that a reasonably handy person like myself who happens to be useless with electronic circuits could successfully pull off?

 

[Don Kasper]

Why heatshrink and not a hardier metal screw-on cap?

Is this a modification that a reasonably handy person like myself who happens to be useless with electronic circuits could successfully pull off?

Heatshrink provides just enough rigidity/strain relief and flexibility, IMO. And...I'm not aware of any "metal screw-on cap" that is available for the Deep Panel Jack.
Yes - there is a minimum of "electronic circuits" knowledge necessary for this modification, but good soldering experience and pre-soldering wire prep-skills are valuable. There is only a center signal wire and an outer shielding wrap that need to be prepped before soldering.
The most challenging part is fabricating the mounting "clip". That takes some metal-working layout/cutting/drilling/bending skills. You may find an easier mounting system that is less labor-intensive.
Let me know if you need a more detailed description.
Thanks for your interest.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Thank you for the tutorial.

Metalwork I can do, but circuits baffle me. It’s always been a blind spot.

I was referring to the common type of housing that you find on most commercial 1/4” male cord jacks.

 

[Don Kasper]

Thank you for the tutorial.

Metalwork I can do, but circuits baffle me. It’s always been a blind spot.

I was referring to the common type of housing that you find on most commercial 1/4” male cord jacks.

You're welcome.
A standard commercial 1/4" (fe)male jack is not able to be mounted to a "clip", as there are no threads on the end of it - Fishman must turn theirs down on a lathe and then use a die to cut threads onto the jack, which then allows it to be attached to the "clip", using a nut.
The Deep Panel Jack is not meant to be covered - it is meant to be permanently mounted to a "Panel", so there is no protective "housing" available, that I'm aware of.
Thanks.

 

[dylanjohnson]

I just got one of these for a backup after selling mine off years ago. I plugged it in to a PJB Double Four to check signal and boom! It sounds GREAT. Staying on for further explorations. My bass seems to like it a lot.

 

[Fat bob]

I have recently been a little frustrated with the darkness of the life line- so I dug out my underwood. I haven't used in a while due to getting a new bridge installed and not filing it for the underwood. I had a get together with 2 friends tenor sax (who also plays electric bass) and drummer who are great jazz players. They both preferred the underwood, stating they could hear some treble and detail that wasn't there with life line... then I used it on a gig (small big band-large combo, 7? Horns,) It was nice to have the underwood to help cut though a bit, and also was fun for the few solos. My bass sounded best with just the one element also.

 

[Don Kasper]

My bass sounded best with just the one element also.

I agree.
And yet, the Underwood company continues to ignore the voluminous testimonies of single element users. (You can lead a horse to water, but.....)
Mind Boggling.
Thanks, (Fat) bob.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Here ya go...

The ongoing Underwood "1 element or 2 element" discussion prompted me to see if I could adapt my unused "second element" that I removed to make my "1 element" Underwood Pickup. (For that, I simply cut off the G side element and adapted it using an old Fishman BP-100 afterlength mounting system, which I really like.)
I only have 1 of the Fishman mounting systems, so I needed to fabricate some way to mount this leftover Underwood element.
First, I had to remove the Underwood plastic tie-wrap connecting gizmo, and chop off the 1/4in. jack...

Ummm Don,
I know the horse is waaaay out of the barn by now but...

Link Removed
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[Don Kasper]

Ummm Don,
I know the horse is waaaay out of the barn by now but...

Link Removed
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Nope... It has an RCA on one side. Yuk!
I'm not at all fond of the RCA jack system.
But maybe it can be modified to 1/4", instead of RCA??
Thanks, JeffKissell.
EDIT: I mean maybe it can be modified to directly solder the Underwood cable directly to the jack, so that NO RCA is necessary.
Thanks, again.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Curse you Don Kasper, you win again! I guess $40 is pretty steep if you only end up using the bracket.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

You might be able to just bypass the RCA connector and wire the pickup straight in. The other end is the correct 1/4" connection.

 

[Don Kasper]

Curse you Don Kasper,

Get in Line!!
Thanks, Jeff. I had no idea that Fishman would sell that part separately. Good to know, if I get lazy(ier).

 

[dylanjohnson]

You might be able to just bypass the RCA connector and wire the pickup straight in. The other end is the correct 1/4" connection.

Pretty sure there's a capacitor in there, guys. I had a Full Circle with an intermittent jack, and was told I couldn't just replace it with any barrel jack because of that.

 

[Don Kasper]

Pretty sure there's a capacitor in there, guys. I had a Full Circle with an intermittent jack, and was told I couldn't just replace it with any barrel jack because of that.

That which has been Soldered can be Un-soldered.
I think...
Good to know.
Thx, dylan.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

A Shadow bridge wing pickup is available as single (SH-951) and double element (SH-940).
The elements are a bit thicker than the elements of the Underwood.

An alternative for the Lifeline is a Full Circle or Yamahiko.
Maybe also a Wilson K1 or an ANS/Bassbalsereit but for both a hole needs to be drilled into the bridge (K1: small, ANS: large) and it should be made by a luthier since you need special tools for the conical hole.

 

[Jay Mendoza]

Underwood thread resurrection:

OK, it's an old thread and I know that, before the peanut galley chimes in.

But my faithful Underwood pickup which I have had for 40+ years developed a rattle. I contacted Melissa Underwood and she asked me to ship it to her for inspection, service, and repair. Mine was the dual element type, and in the past before it got noisy, I tried using one, or the other of the two elements by themselves, and noticed a change in sound; it was not as full. Moving from the G wing to the E wing predictably gave more bass response, and G wing only gave more treble. I put both back in and tried some other stuff which was far more revealing.

Amplifier, combo, or head and cabinet, make huge differences. A 4x10 cabinet sounded best to me. Tone control settings and a pre-amp also open up another world of possibilities that could fill volumes. At the end of the day, a Boss GEB-7 7 band graphic Bass EQ pedal outdoes all the dedicated bass pre-amps and is only $125 retail. BTW, I have a Behringer BEQ700 that is a low cost but very comparable equivalent to the Boss. Nice thing is, I really don't need any of them with the Underwood!

Amplifiers aside, the Underwood is the most feedback resistant pick-up I have used. For a Piezo, type, it has very high output and I assume that is because the elements work together to give twice the amount of drive compared to a single element. It also captures the treble and bass vibrations from both sides of the bridge. Because of that you can "tune" some of the response using a thin sheet of plastic, or soft sheet balsa to damp the elements if you feel it has too much bass or treble. BTW, that works better than boosting or cutting on the amp, or pre-amp. . A compressor ahead of the EQ pedal does wonders, I use an old DOD FX80B.

Finally, other than your technique and style of playing, string type, gauge and brand had the biggest impact on sound for me, both acoustically and amplified. Amplification brings out the tonal nuances of gut strings, and can make wound steel strings more vibrant and edgy. Piezo pickups all sound different compared to a microphone.

Now here is something I have yet to be able to confirm, and that is the perceived difference in the acoustic sound with the Underwood in place, or removed. Either way I just cannot hear any difference, and neither can anyone else who I have asked to A/B listen to it. My only conclusion is that if you have less than a premium Aubert/Despiau bridge, they are probably too soft and compress the wing slots under string tension. I even tried placing pieces of wood wedges, and stacked up guitar picks in the bass and treble wing slots, and could not hear any differences. Try it yourself, it is enlightening. By comparison, slight movement of the bridge or tailpiece gut spacing has very noticeable effects, as does the soundpost.

Often imitated, but never equaled, the Underwood stands on it's own and gives that "signature" sound that many bass players lust after.

 

[DrayMiles]

I have the Underwood and the Lifeline on my bass. I liked the way Stanley Clarke sounds with his and I dig the sound.

 

[flatback]

One thing I like about the Underwood even now 40 years later, after owning most of the pickup offerings out there, is that given all the sound variables of playing gigs, all the adverse variables AND the positive variables, the Underwood is very clear about what it can do and what it cannot. It excels in getting you the bassist a clear, quick , kind of compressed, laser of a sound that enables your ear to react with (not behind) the pace of the music. It sounds only half terrible, (electric-y and rubbery and piezo-y) and that stuff is hard to get past. (I have spent way too much money on pickups trying to get the best of everything) But what it DOES right, enables a kind of participation in the music that is pretty sick.
I keep coming back to this youtube clip of Dave Holland playing with Herbie and Jack and Pat and they are coming out of this crazy rhythmic chordal Herbie solo on Solar (and Pat plays LOUD and so does Jack) and then Dave just effortlessly starts soloing, killing it, playing all kinds of interesting sheite, kissing the strings, Underwood and GK 150MB powering it.

I have spent way too much time trying to get my on stage sound to be BOTH acoustic sounding and clear enough to hear quick and articulate thru the on stage wash. When I play with the Underwood I cringe at the TONE, but I love the drive and effortlessness and the rhythmic clarity and definition.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

One of my basses has a Stat B and an Underwood. I prefer the Stat but if you want the piezo "thing" the Underwood has it in spades. At this point it's kind of an old school sound, but when Lorin Cohen, fine NYC bassist, borrows my bass he uses the Underwood and told me the guys in the band preferred it too.