Nobody plays in tune all the time. Even not the greatest upright or fretless players. Players like Eddie Gomez or Ron Carter don't have the best intonation but they make that up with their enormous creativity.
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Unlined or Lined: Irrelevant?
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
Nobody plays in tune all the time. Even not the greatest upright or fretless players. Players like Eddie Gomez or Ron Carter don't have the best intonation but they make that up with their enormous creativity.
I've had defretted lined fretless basses for decades.
Since 2017 I made the jump to an unlined fretless.
You can't get good on an unlined if you don't have one to practice on.
But it's not like you don't have any visual cues.
There ARE side dots.
Since 2017 I made the jump to an unlined fretless.
You can't get good on an unlined if you don't have one to practice on.
But it's not like you don't have any visual cues.
There ARE side dots.
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I prefer unlined. My fretless MRS bass doesn't have lines and I learned to play it using my ear and the side dots.
I have 2 fretless presently, but 3 more have passed through my hands.
From all these 3 were unlined (one is my Ibanez Roadstar that I haveo) and 2 lined, althought the lined that I presently have (Ibanez SRH505F) has black lines in a dark rosewood board which makes them quite subtle.
Aesthetically I prefer an unlined board. To play and intonate I relly mostly in the side dots that are more visible when you're standing up and in my ears.
For me, it's a matter of taste and what makes you feel more secure of your self.
From all these 3 were unlined (one is my Ibanez Roadstar that I haveo) and 2 lined, althought the lined that I presently have (Ibanez SRH505F) has black lines in a dark rosewood board which makes them quite subtle.
Aesthetically I prefer an unlined board. To play and intonate I relly mostly in the side dots that are more visible when you're standing up and in my ears.
For me, it's a matter of taste and what makes you feel more secure of your self.
Most bass players spend an inordinate amount of time looking at the fretboard. Personally, I don't fret about it.
Humans perceive the world through their senses. The degree to which we rely on a particular sense varies depending on the situation. Visual cues often can occupy our cognitive load, diminishing the amount of cycles given to other stimuli. Part of that is lizard-brain stuff - we are tuned to visual motion because it could be a threat (e.g. something coming to eat us). So if you're concentrating on what you see, you have less of your brain to focus on what you hear and feel.
This is why I prefer unlined. I use the side dots as reference, but my mind knows that it is just an approximation. So the amount of brain power I'm using to "see" where I'm supposed to be playing is lower, leaving more for my ears to process (though some might argue that interpolation might add to the load). If there are lines, my mind thinks that is "the answer", so more brain power goes to the visual cues matching physical movements, less to the aural correlation.
That's my theory anyway, and I find that I have an easier time playing unlined than I do lined. Your theory may be different, and your experience may be different. And that's...ok
This is why I prefer unlined. I use the side dots as reference, but my mind knows that it is just an approximation. So the amount of brain power I'm using to "see" where I'm supposed to be playing is lower, leaving more for my ears to process (though some might argue that interpolation might add to the load). If there are lines, my mind thinks that is "the answer", so more brain power goes to the visual cues matching physical movements, less to the aural correlation.
That's my theory anyway, and I find that I have an easier time playing unlined than I do lined. Your theory may be different, and your experience may be different. And that's...ok
The positions of the fret lines are incorrect, just as the positions of the frets themselves are on a typical fretted instrument. Playing right on the lines (“frets”) results in less than ideal intonation. No worse than on a fretted base, but it kind of visually interferes with one of the great benefits of fretless bass, which is not being tied to the frets – being able to finely warp every single note however you see fit. It, of course, can be done even with lines, but the brain is going to tend to go right for the line until you get used to it. When I play fretless, I prefer not to have a fretboard that is so “rigid” in appearance, as a fretted bass is. If anyone else likes lines, I have no problem with that at all. I was simply explaining why I don’t. Largely, because I have been playing 32 years without them, and they kind of screw me up because my audio-visual interpretation of the bass is so set in its ways.
Also, for what it’s worth, I do play upright…and trombone. Lines on those instruments would throw me for even more of a loop than lines on a fretless bass-guitar. Pretty sure lines would screw with orchestral bowed strings players as well (violinists, cellists, etc.).
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Cello, violin, double bass all depend on ear training. A lined fretless is like training wheels on a bicycle, feel the force Luke
That's what string intonation is for. If you set the intonation so that your finger sits directly on top of the line, that stays within the scale of the board. From 6.02 it explains how Willis discovered fretting on top of the line, is a far better system:
Unlined looks cooler. That's enough for me.
That said, it helps that I started on upright so lines are optional (side dots are enough refference for me), but all things being equal, I'll go with the one that looks better.
It's a performance, be a showman. Anything that gives you or your band an edge in how you are perceived/noticed/remembered is a good thing.
That said, it helps that I started on upright so lines are optional (side dots are enough refference for me), but all things being equal, I'll go with the one that looks better.
It's a performance, be a showman. Anything that gives you or your band an edge in how you are perceived/noticed/remembered is a good thing.
I know what string length changes do, and how to use them. But no amount of saddle adjustment can make every fret line land at exactly the in-tune spot, across the neck (with typical frets, which span all the strings in a straight run). You simply cannot perfectly tune every fret on a fretted bass, nor every line on a lined fretless. The only way you can do that is by having the frets in different locations for each string.
Of course, as I said before, lines do not prevent you from having perfect intonation, or warping notes however you want. Just because they are there, doesn’t mean you have to play right on them. It’s just that the lines will naturally draw you to them, and you have to be more deliberate, and/or get over having your fingers glued to the lines (which is not much better than playing fretted, in terms of intonation).
Or, to say roughly the same thing in another way...what this guy said:
Humans perceive the world through their senses. The degree to which we rely on a particular sense varies depending on the situation. Visual cues often can occupy our cognitive load, diminishing the amount of cycles given to other stimuli. Part of that is lizard-brain stuff - we are tuned to visual motion because it could be a threat (e.g. something coming to eat us). So if you're concentrating on what you see, you have less of your brain to focus on what you hear and feel.
This is why I prefer unlined. I use the side dots as reference, but my mind knows that it is just an approximation. So the amount of brain power I'm using to "see" where I'm supposed to be playing is lower, leaving more for my ears to process (though some might argue that interpolation might add to the load). If there are lines, my mind thinks that is "the answer", so more brain power goes to the visual cues matching physical movements, less to the aural correlation.
That's my theory anyway, and I find that I have an easier time playing unlined than I do lined. Your theory may be different, and your experience may be different. And that's...ok
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Chef
In Memoriam
"whether you believe you can or you can't, you're right."
If you have to see the lines to know if you're playing in tune, you need the lines.
Put dots on the side of the fretboard.
I did that with my double bass - I can see exactly where I am just fine.
I did that with my double bass - I can see exactly where I am just fine.
Lines are helpful for transitioning to fretless. They might also be helpful if you don't have the time to put into completely mastering a fretless. But if you have the time, and play fretless much of the time, the lines won't matter one way or the other
My SRH505F is the only fretless I've owned yet. Lines on the fretboard to me don't matter it's the side dots, which for this model of bass happens to be right on the lines. That way when I feel like I need to look I have something to measure because craning my neck over to see the fret board isn't exactly an ergonomic thing.
There are basses that mark the lines on the side of the neck as well which makes a nice reference point.
IME with my SRH505F so far, if I take the time to intonate, adjusting the saddles for the open note and the octave, fingering the lines sounds right. (how do we even refer to "the 12th fret" on a finger board?)
I don't get the whole "use your ears thing".. if your bass is setup properly and you're hearing a sharp or flat note..then you've already put your finger in the wrong spot and maybe should take a look at the markers to help develop the muscle memory to hit the right spot the next time around.
I'd personally hope to still have some form of visual reference even on a lovely looking ebony fingerboard with no lines.
There are basses that mark the lines on the side of the neck as well which makes a nice reference point.
IME with my SRH505F so far, if I take the time to intonate, adjusting the saddles for the open note and the octave, fingering the lines sounds right. (how do we even refer to "the 12th fret" on a finger board?)
I don't get the whole "use your ears thing".. if your bass is setup properly and you're hearing a sharp or flat note..then you've already put your finger in the wrong spot and maybe should take a look at the markers to help develop the muscle memory to hit the right spot the next time around.
I'd personally hope to still have some form of visual reference even on a lovely looking ebony fingerboard with no lines.
