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Unlined or Lined: Irrelevant?

IMHO the relevance is this: people have played unlined fretless instruments for hundreds of years.

I always wanted a Pedulla and eventually got a Buzz about 15 years ago. The lines drove me crazy! Every single fretless bass I had owned previously (not to mention all my DBs) were unlined. Side dots? OK. Lines, um, no.
So it’s OK to cheat just a little? :D
 
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Suggestion If you want to intonate on a fretless very well.

1) Choose one fretless and have that bass set up correctly.
2) Learn proper fingering technique
3) Practice intonation technique.
4) Peactice and gig only on the selected fretless for months. Put all your other basses away.
 
Side dots (what you need to figure out where you are on a very long neck) are important. Lines on the fingerboard are in the wrong place to help, if you're playing the thing with good posture. Some (not all) lines are made poorly - you'll have little (or big) issues with them playing wise.
 
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Isnt it analogous to training wheels or not?

Lines are not like training wheels...or maybe they are. Training wheels allow you to ride a bike without learning to balance it - I don't think that's a good thing for very long. Lines on a fretless encourage you to look at your fingerboard. Which means you're learning to play with poor posture, whether you're standing or sitting. Ergonomically, that's defintely a bad thing.
 
I've had both and adapted to both, so there's not a huge real difference. There is a bit of a psychological difference. For me, I feel more confident and look down less when it's unlined. Then again, I learned fretless on an unlined fingerboard. When the lines are there, I always have an immediate visual reference. For some this is probably a good thing, but for me, it makes me check more, question myself more in term of intonation.
 
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Lines are not like training wheels...or maybe they are. Training wheels allow you to ride a bike without learning to balance it - I don't think that's a good thing for very long. Lines on a fretless encourage you to look at your fingerboard. Which means you're learning to play with poor posture, whether you're standing or sitting. Ergonomically, that's defintely a bad thing.
FYI, I do a lot of my bass practice laying in bed in the dark. I can land on all the notes below 12th fret all the time. It kind of amazes me.
 
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The lines drove me crazy!
me too!
- too much between the lines = flat
- too much on the lines = sharp
- no lines = no lines

So it’s OK to cheat just a little? :D
yes! IME: it's ok to cheat a lot! :D i doubt that i'm alone on this, but: it's easier for me to cheat a whole bunch if i'm playing an unlined board. a lot of non-fretless players can't wrap their heads around this. no worries...except for the 'incredulous few', some players actually prefer unlined boards because they play better. i said "some."

also, when this topic comes up: some of the 'liners' get defensive about their choices as if their choices needed defending in the first place. it's easy to say, "i prefer lines" and let others post their own preferences.

what i don't get is this: why are cats who prefer unlined boards "snobs?" :laugh:

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It all boils down to personal preference
:thumbsup:
 
FYI, I do a lot of my bass practice laying in bed in the dark. I can land on all the notes below 12th fret all the time. It kind of amazes me.

I've played in bands where we turned off the lights during rehearsal at times - helps you know what you've got figured out, and what you need to work on. I sometimes practice with my eyes closed for the same reason. Some of the stages I play now are very dark and/or we have lots of swirling lights at times - you can easily be functionally blind without any real notice. So, being able to play without seeing what you're doing is a huge advantage. When there is some (but not a lot of light), then...

position markers.jpg
 
Not one better than the other, it depends on personal taste. Sound-wise I don't think there's any detectable difference.

I have a lined fretless, but that's mostly for the reasons of me playing extreme music - sometimes during live shows, with crazy lighting and chaotic sound situations means sometimes I might not be 100% sure of being able to hear myself, and might lose track of where I am - lined fretless makes it much easier to recover.

 
-Lines are ok. I need them to play fretless in tune. Why else would I want lines. (the looks?)
-I dont need no stinkin lines and my intonation is good because I play a lot and work at it.
-I converted my awesome bass to fretless, the lines are just there as a result (jaco).

Who probably has the better ear and technique?
 
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I've played in bands where we turned off the lights during rehearsal at times - helps you know what you've got figured out, and what you need to work on. I sometimes practice with my eyes closed for the same reason. Some of the stages I play now are very dark and/or we have lots of swirling lights at times - you can easily be functionally blind without any real notice. So, being able to play without seeing what you're doing is a huge advantage. When there is some (but not a lot of light), then... View attachment 3739930
that's just way-over-the-top "cheating," micguy ! :laugh:

i'd do that in a heartbeat! :thumbsup:

edit: clarity
 
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A double bass doesn't have lines.

Propably said allready but no it does not. It has app. 41" - 42" vibrating string lenght and physical landmarks instead. I`ve recently cleaned some dust off from my lined fretless ( my only electric bass ) after a couple of years playing the DB exclusively, and I have to say that while these two instruments fill similar role in musics that I play and share the same tuning, they have close to zero in common. Db is a massive bowed string instrument by nature, fretless bass guitar is just that, a guitar, and often a electric one.
 
Not one better than the other, it depends on personal taste. Sound-wise I don't think there's any detectable difference.

I have a lined fretless, but that's mostly for the reasons of me playing extreme music - sometimes during live shows, with crazy lighting and chaotic sound situations means sometimes I might not be 100% sure of being able to hear myself, and might lose track of where I am - lined fretless makes it much easier to recover.


That is definitely more of a challenge than me sitting down at church while playing.
 
A double bass doesn't have lines.
I play both DB and fretless BG. There's a difference with the DB: The straight portion of the neck spans all of about seven notes. Outside of that span, you have all sorts of "cheats" such as where your hand touches the curve of the neck, your arm touching the upper bout, and so forth. But even on the DB, my own experience is that intonation is not an all-or-nothing affair, but a lifelong pursuit to keep improving. Near the end of his life, a reporter asked Ray Brown if he still needed to practice, and Brown said: Of course, I could still improve my intonation. That's from a bassist who I've never heard play out of tune.

So, following that great master, I think it's no shame to admit that I still need to improve my intonation, and that I will take any help that I can get to play in tune.

Both of my electric basses have lines. The simple reason is that I de-fretted them myself: A 1970s Fender Mustang Bass, and a more recent entry level Ibanez. In each case I filled the slots with a dark colored Plastic Wood. Incidentally, the Plastic Wood has held up for 30+ years on the Fender, and more than a decade on the Ibby. I'd use it again. The color makes the lines nearly invisible from a distance, but I know they're there. I think that I'd prefer lines if I bought a new fretless today. (I'm looking, maybe if I survive the COVID outbreak, I'll reward myself with a new bass. My last new bass was a reward for surviving the 2008 financial crisis).

Now, about using the lines. I think you have to practice and play like they're not there, and only use them for infrequent reference. The reason is simply that there's too much happening for you to pay constant attention to your fingerboard, plus it looks like you're staring at your shoes. Whether anybody can get to the point of playing fretless with good enough intonation is a toss-up, and might not really even reflect how good you are on bass. It's not a matter of ear -- if you can hear that you're out of tune, it's too late. It's mostly technique. It might be more of a matter of how you devote your practice time. Having been around a lot of kids learning string instruments, I've noticed that intonation begins to happen when it becomes almost an obsession. I use intonation as a gauge of my technique, i.e., when I notice that I'm consistently playing something out of tune, I look for what I'm actually doing wrong with my technique, and try to correct it.

There, enough words without answering the question! ;)
 
that's just way-over-the-top "cheating," micguy ! :laugh:

So, should we all take all the position markers off our instruments so none of us are "cheating"? Should pianos be made with just white keys, all in one row? Should we remove road signs that help lost people get where they're going? Should airplane cockpits have the numbers on the gauges removed? Indeed, should we remove all the gauges? How far do we take this?

I started doing that because the combination of dark stages, roasted necks, and old eyes meant it was hard to see when I did big shifts (normal movements around the fretboard I do without looking).

I'd rather be thought of as "the guy with odd markings on his bass necks" than "the guy that plays a lot of wrong notes".