Unlined or Lined: Irrelevant?

[fdeck]

That is definitely more of a challenge than me sitting down at church while playing.

Easier than kneeling.

 

[gigetto]

I applu the dots with uni posca....

 

[Dr. Cheese]

To clarify my situation as much as I can, let me say that I love my Pedulla. It is easily one of the very best basses I have ever owned. It plays and sounds great. I like unlined fretless mainly for the looks, not any musical reason although I can certainly get the argument about unlined encouraging a better ear. That said, the Tony Franklin does have a distinct tone that I like a lot. Ultimately, I have decided that it just makes more sense to concentrate on what I have instead of worrying about sinking big dollars into another fretless.

 

[brianrost]

So it’s OK to cheat just a little?

Bass guitars do not have the physical references that violin family instruments do. On a DB, the heel restricts access starting on D or Eb on the G string (7th fret position). The heel is actually used by players to orient themselves. If I slide up the neck until the side of my hand below the pinky hits the heel, I can drop the pinky and there is the D on the G string. If I slide up so the the pocket of the hand between thumb and index finger hits the heel, I can drop the index finger and get the D. DB players use three fingers on the left hand (pinky and ring finger are used together) so the heel orients me to a range of 5 notes...C through E on the G string. Then the body gets in the way at the octave (12th fret posiiton) and players switch to "thumb position" and use the thumb almost like a capo, it's no longer behind the neck. That splits the neck into only 3 zones/positions: near the nut, near the heel and thumb position.

On fretless bass guitar, the side dots help because the physical references aren't there and players make use of a lot more positions than DB players do and avoid open strings. Even then, the dot is just an aid, you still use your ear and muscle memory to play in tune. Anyone who uses the standard fingering of the thumb centered on the back of the neck below the middle finger and uses the standard 4-fret stretch will have no real issues with an unlined fretless. I was gigging my first fretless in less than a month.

 

[bbh]

As the minutes go by, my fingers flatten out a bit making use of the lines as targets when I’m playing out of tune.

 

[IamGroot]

The bow and Simandl is a rite of passage for the other bigger fretless. It makes playing the electric fretless seem easy.

I wish they made a Simandl for electric with OFPF.

 

[JRA]

So, should we all take all the position markers off our instruments so none of us are "cheating"? Should pianos be made with just white keys, all in one row? Should we remove road signs that help lost people get where they're going? Should airplane cockpits have the numbers on the gauges removed? Indeed, should we remove all the gauges? How far do we take this?

I started doing that because the combination of dark stages, roasted necks, and old eyes meant it was hard to see when I did big shifts (normal movements around the fretboard I do without looking).

I'd rather be thought of as "the guy with odd markings on his bass necks" than "the guy that plays a lot of wrong notes".

i'm not critical at all --- i think your 'mod' is genius! i guess that was not clear in my post in this already over-heated thread. let me re-phrase without trying to mock the kids: i love the kind of adaptations players make to get the job done. if like some, you consider those things as "cheating" = you've never played the big stages as if your life depended on it.

i edited my previous post to conform with my POV.

 

[micguy]

I started playing music at 8 years old - on violin. Which, last I checked, is an unlined fretless. With a really short scale, in a pitch range where everything is VERY audible. And you bow it, so the higher harmonics don't go away. It is, in the hands of an incompetent musician, a formidable tone weapon. The penalty for playing a note that's a little off finger placement wise on a violin is horrendous - in that pitch range, aaaargh!!!!

If they trust an 8 year old with an unlined fretless violin, I think any adult that isn't tone deaf should be able to play an unlined fretless bass (with sufficient practice).


But get position dots, just to be sure.

 

[micguy]

i'm not critical at all --- i think your 'mod' is genius!

I wasn't really complaining or thinking you were being critical - I was just having a bit of fun, partly at your expense, assuming you'd be OK with that.

We're good.

The markers are paint - regular old white Rustoleum. The tough part is protecting the paint (there's poly over the whole neck after painting the markers), then more poly until you can sand things flat (eliminate the "step" edges of the paint), then a coat or two more poly (the last coats are satin) so everything is even and covered. The a light scuff of everything with 800 grit so the neck plays well. It takes about a week to do a neck like that.

 

[Koog]

My answer is complex: whichever makes you most confident and comfortable in achieving good intonation.

 

[Tom Baker]

I'm honestly surprised it's so controversial. Like anything else it's an individual choice.

 

[JRA]

I wasn't really complaining or thinking you were being critical - I was just having a bit of fun, partly at your expense, assuming you'd be OK with that.

i'm good!

i'm thinking about starting a thread to show how i "cheat" with my side dots --- then we can have this bru-ha all over again!

I'm honestly surprised it's so controversial. Like anything else it's an individual choice.

of course it is! fretless players should be sticking together, IMO. i'd rather make fun of the fret-heads...as a unified group!

seems like this all started when JimmyM krept in, krapt, and then krept out! he was the first to use the term "snob" for someone who prefers an unlined board. then all he// broke loose. what a trip!

 

[dalkowski]

I bought an entry-level Yammy fretless with lined board decades ago. I want to believe that if not for the lines (and the pointy headstock), I'd break it out a lot more often than I do now, which is never.

 

[JRA]

I applu the dots with uni posca....

same here!

 

[SteveCS]

... Mick Karn, play or played unlined. ...

Mick played with lines.

 

[Lagado]

Meh. Play an unlined fretless all you want.

You still won't get laid. Not with intonation like that.

 

[arbiterusa]

My teacher really discouraged unlined fretless

Why on earth would they do that?

When I first started violin, my teacher put tape lines on my instrument and told me that in two weeks they were coming off, so I'd better learn where they were. She was as good as her word; two weeks and they were gone.

Lines keep you looking at the fingerboard, which is just fine if fretless is not your main thing (the usual situation is that it gets busted out on a couple of ballads and that's that). But if you're gonna play fretless as your only instrument, you gotta not be looking at the fingerboard. Goes double if you sing.

Enjoy the Geddy. I was pulling for the TF, but damn, those Geddy basses are the nicest thing Fender makes right now.

 

[drumvsbass]

I love how many fretless snobs hate the idea of lines, yet most of them love a bassist who used a lined fretless.

Irrelevant. Play what you want, be happy.

Easy on the truth here @JimmyM.

 

[Inara]

Mick played with lines.

Thanks for the correction. I saw him with an unlined Wal once, but I shouldn't have assumed that's all he played.

 

[Reiska]

The bow and Simandl is a rite of passage for the other bigger fretless. It makes playing the electric fretless seem easy.

I wish they made a Simandl for electric with OFPF.

I play fretless with a jackass simandl approach. My bass is a converted fretless P and I find 1-2-3-4 painful in lower positions, I go 1-2-3 or 1-2-3-4 up from around 5th - 7th fret line. I quess this comes from playing the DB and it`s position approach.

I find lines helpful on a fretless bass guitar, as there are very little reference tools other than my ears. One thing about intonation in general is that there might be a difference between beeing in tune inside the music that I`m playing with others or along records and beeing in tune inside the instrument, in reference to open strings. With a DB it`s quite different as there are physical landmarks, my bodily references against them, and a mass of acoustic resonance that reacts physically to my beeing in or out of tune. The whole phenomenom of intonation is much more holistic with the DB than on a fretless electric, I quess that`s why I prefer a lined one.