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Unusual Chord?
- Thread starter Derek Balonek
- Start date
The Cminsus2 is soooooo confusing !!!
Plus, the OP clearly stated that he was creating a stack of fifths with D,A and E. Which emphasizes the Dadd9no3
Yeesh, I would *never* say "msus2." (I've never seen it either, outside of that example you just provided.) The whole point of the sus is that because the 3 is omitted, you can't really call the chord either major or minor. I agree with you, that notation on the left doesn't make sense.
Stick_Player
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They are two different 'sounds' to my ear.
Dsus2 (D, E, A) is a cluster - a tight sonority, because of the Major 2nd interval.
Dadd9(no 3rd) is an open sound due to the stacked Perfect Fifths.
If I want to convey the difference without actually notating the desired voicing, I would pick one chord label over the other.
But this is what you're not getting. There *isn't* necessarily a major 2nd interval. That totally depends on the voicing, which is *not* determined or specified by the chord name. Drop that D down an octave, or even two octaves. When you do that, there's no longer a major 2nd between D and E, so what's the chord now?
Once again, the name of the chord doesn't specify if its a tight voicing or an open one. Chord names don't have that function. You can voice any chord on earth in a tight or an open way, and the name of the chord doesn't change. It doesn't become a different chord.
It's tempting to think of chord tones as having to fall in a certain order because of the way we construct them theoretically in tertian fashion, but this order does not have to be followed in real life. Here are two voicings for a C13 (without the 5), both easily playable on a guitar or a piano:
C Bb D E A
C Bb E A D
The voicings are different: In one of them the D is below the E, in the other above it. Yet everybody knows they're the same chord, and that the D is the 9th either way. Drop the C an octave, and they're still the same chord. So why should the D chord we're talking about be any different?
Two different sounds may be two different voicings without being two different chords.
Here's a common and easy guitar chord:
D A D E
Which chord is that?
Stick_Player
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I totally get it. The general interpretation of a sus2 label would incorporate the Major second interval. Otherwise use the "9th" label to indicate the quintal sound.
You're just not interested in my explanation nor have you offered a better label to the OP's 3-note chord.
To answer your hypothetical: "Drop that D down an octave, or even two octaves. When you do that, there's no longer a major 2nd between D and E, so what's the chord now?"
If I want that voicing then it's either the same or a different label, but I would actually notate it. And of course, it depends where it's leading to.
I don't like to cite wikipedia, but it agrees with me.
sus2
That's easy - Dadd9(no 3rd).
And once again, for the umpteenth time, the OP's chord in question is a Dadd9(no 3rd). But, you are free to call it anything you want.
Yes it could be as well, especially if the third (either major or minor) is not to be played in the song or in that part of the tune.
Sometimes in chord notation it is possible also to name the actual note we are adding like this: D5 add E.
The whole debate here is the way to notate the sound of 2 fifths stacked together which could be this also: A5/D.
We should never forget that music notation and chord symbols are not perfect and they are a way to express the sound that a composer or an arranger wants in a simple form other then note for note in the most musical way and comprehensive way in the context of the music. We should not forget that we are discussing 3 notes here without knowing the tonality of the music. May be it is a major chord, or a minor chord or just an open chord à la Police.
There are about 4 valid ways now to describe that sound in this thread and they all depend on what was been played before or what will be play after to determine which one is best.
But I personally prefer the add9 notation to express the sound and voicing the OP asked for! But on the other hand, the notation of power chords like A5 or D5 could be very good also especially if it is a D bass pedal and we have power chords moving on top. It depends on the context.
Stick_Player said:
You would call it that even though it has the major 2nd interval that you say distinguishes a sus2 chord from an add9 chord?
Stick_Player
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Is this a musical round and it's my turn, yet again, to repeat myself?
I guess so... the "add 9" is the top voice, making it clearly some kind of "9" chord - D1, A1, D, E.
You may call these 'chords' anything you wish. I'll stick with my method and have success conveying what I want to and through qualified musicians.
sus2 is as common as sunshine around here.
I interpret it to mean that the third is replaced by the 2. I can't recall ever seeing add9 (no third) on a chart.
IMHO, add(no 3rd) seems like going all the way around the block to the right arrive at the next door on the left.
You will end up at the same place, but one route is much simpler. In this case, sus2
I interpret it to mean that the third is replaced by the 2. I can't recall ever seeing add9 (no third) on a chart.
IMHO, add(no 3rd) seems like going all the way around the block to the right arrive at the next door on the left.
You will end up at the same place, but one route is much simpler. In this case, sus2
Working musicians don't need a notebook on their music stand on how to interpret the chord symbols.
sus 2 is really not an international symbol because who knows exactly what it means. A sus 4 is a very intelligent way to replace a note in a voicing making the function of the chord very obvious.
In this example here in the OP, there are at least 3 better ways of writing that sound without having a notebook or an explanation of the chord symbol sus2. 'nuf said about this stupid debate.
sus 2 is really not an international symbol because who knows exactly what it means. A sus 4 is a very intelligent way to replace a note in a voicing making the function of the chord very obvious.
In this example here in the OP, there are at least 3 better ways of writing that sound without having a notebook or an explanation of the chord symbol sus2. 'nuf said about this stupid debate.
Stick_Player
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You might be under a dark cloud.
wikipedia: sus2
Invalid Link Removed
more debate
even more
There is endless commentary about the "add9 (no 3rd)" chord. You might need to get out more.
For the last time, the OP's chord is D add9 (no 3rd).
Stickplayer said
Your post indicates that you misunderstood what I said. I said, I can't recall seeing it written that way. I did not say that it doesn't exist. I can't recall a time I've seen Dadd9 (no 3rd) on a contemporary chart. I know what it means. That was not my point.
Here's what I see written on a regular basis:
Here we have a D2, Dadd2, and Dma9 all in a short sequence of a song.
The D2, would be what you are calling a Dadd9 no3rd.
I know there's quite the debate as to whether D2 is a real chord designation or not.
However, in practical application it's a Dsus2.
You might be under a dark cloud.
.
Your post indicates that you misunderstood what I said. I said, I can't recall seeing it written that way. I did not say that it doesn't exist. I can't recall a time I've seen Dadd9 (no 3rd) on a contemporary chart. I know what it means. That was not my point.
Here's what I see written on a regular basis:
Here we have a D2, Dadd2, and Dma9 all in a short sequence of a song.
The D2, would be what you are calling a Dadd9 no3rd.
I know there's quite the debate as to whether D2 is a real chord designation or not.
However, in practical application it's a Dsus2.
Stick_Player
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Stickplayer said
Your post indicates that you misunderstood what I said. I said, I don't see it written that way. I did not say that it doesn't exist. I can't recall a time I've seen Dadd9 (no 3rd) on a contemporary chart. I know what it means. That was not my point.
Here's what I see written on a regular basis:
Here we have a D2, Dadd2, and Dma9 all in a short sequence of a song.
The D2, would be what you are calling a Dadd9 no3rd.
I know there's quite the debate as to whether D2 is a real chord designation or not.
However, in practical application it's a Dsus2.
The problem with your example is that the notated vocal harmonies do not equate to the chord labels.
HOWEVER, I can easily hear a chording instrument supplying a static D2/Dsus2 (most likely D, E, A) and a bass instrument pedaling a 'D' under the vocal harmonies, that are best explained as a 'Dmaj9' (D, F#, A, C#, E) - measure 60. I take away from this that the composer is NOT wanting to hear the pitch of 'E' as the highest pitch and would rather hear the Major 2nd interval - D and E as static interval.
Measure 62 is better expressed with the indication for the chording instruments to play a 'Dmaj9' (D, F#, A, C#, E). Although the Major Ninth is still NOT the highest pitch.
Measure 65, while labeled 'Dadd2', is also another a 'Dmaj9' (D, F#, A, C#, E). And finally, the Major Ninth is the highest pitch.
I am in no way saying that the noted chords will not work with the notated vocal harmonies - they will, especially if the timbres are different (i.e., voices with strumming guitars and pedaling bass).
This is not a very good example to support your position.
You still missed the point.
I see X2 or Xsus2 all the time. I can't recall a single time seeing a xadd9(no 3rd) written on a contemporary chart.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist, in theory or the real world - only that I can't recall ever seeing it written that way.
Your breakdown of that section of the chart may very well be spot on, but there's still not an add9 (no 3rd) written there, nor did you produce one.
I see X2 or Xsus2 all the time. I can't recall a single time seeing a xadd9(no 3rd) written on a contemporary chart.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist, in theory or the real world - only that I can't recall ever seeing it written that way.
Your breakdown of that section of the chart may very well be spot on, but there's still not an add9 (no 3rd) written there, nor did you produce one.
Well Stickplayer persists in maintaining that the same three notes with different voicings have different names even though other chords do not. No point going any further with this one.
John
John
That's not a home-made chart.
90% of the time I'm playing from a "Rhythm Score" with little written in other than chord names and the rhythm.
Specific lines can/will be notated.
When I get a home-made chart - it will be a Nashville Number Chart - almost without fail.
Examples of the rhythm score:
Both of these were played last week:
and
If I see D2 and a Dadd2 in the same chart, I treat them differently. The D2 is a sus2 while the Dadd2 will keep the third.
That may be wrong - in theory - but it's what works in application.
This thread makes me laugh.
As I see it, most answers are valid looked at one way or another.
Without any context, it's just hair splitting.
As I see it, most answers are valid looked at one way or another.
Without any context, it's just hair splitting.
