Double Bass Upright Intonation

[SAlcott]

I wonder if drones might provide a different type of "ear/mind training"? Matching external sources? Useful for out-of-tune pianos, horn, and other string players. I remember a gig once in which the singer was so off-pitch, I stared at my left-hand for a good minute or so trying to figure out how I could be SO far off-pitch. Turns it, for once, it wasn't me!

Been there-it's torture, and can really make you doubt your ability to play in tune. A couple stands of bad 'cellists can have the same effect.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

I certainly will recommend Jazzadvice.com's Ear Training Method.
Master Intervals, Chords, & Music | The Ear Training Method

Not only do you work on hearing your intervals but part of the exercises is to sing the next note. For me it's worked great as to being forced to internally hear the right pitch before they play it and then you can self-correct. It's a big set of MP3s which you can put on any personal device and listen in your car or headphones. It's a bit pricey but I love it.

 

[Ian Votaw]

I certainly will recommend Jazzadvice.com's Ear Training Method.
Master Intervals, Chords, & Music | The Ear Training Method

Not only do you work on hearing your intervals but part of the exercises is to sing the next note. For me it's worked great as to being forced to internally hear the right pitch before they play it and then you can self-correct. It's a big set of MP3s which you can put on any personal device and listen in your car or headphones. It's a bit pricey but I love it.

Thanks! I'll definitely check it out.

 

[ctrlzjones]

Been there-it's torture, and can really make you doubt your ability to play in tune. A couple stands of bad 'cellists can have the same effect.

Isn't that the situation when you engage the 'open strings countercheck'?

 

[SAlcott]

Isn't that the situation when you engage the 'open strings countercheck'?

Difficult in Db.

 

[ctrlzjones]

Difficult in Db.

Yep, I expected somebody mentioning the 'black hole', where everybody is running risk to be deported into the next galaxy ...

Another exercise that helped me a lot is to forget about positions and do the scales/arpeggios changing the fingering 'on spot'.
That is changing the fingering 1/(2)3/4 on every note before continuing to the next one.

I don't know how much this is recommendable for a beginner (others may be screaming: 'stop' here; and they may be right), but it helped me a lot getting away from the 'visual control' and as a consequence more fluid in the mind-body translation process.

 

[Sam Dingle]

wait...whats intonation?

 

[Tom Lane]

Lot's of great suggestions/recommendations. One more: practice shifting in the same way Simandl does, even if you're not doing Simandl. Pick a hand shape, say spanning a Minor 3rd and practice moving that hand shape up intervals - half-steps, whole-steps, Minor 3rds, etc. Kind of like "vomit" exercises while maintaining your hand shape. Related to that, chose a hand shape and then open or close it by shifting only either your thumb or your 3rd finger. Can be kind of tricky because sometimes you have to shift your other fingers too.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Another exercise that helped me a lot is to forget about positions and do the scales/arpeggios changing the fingering 'on spot'.
That is changing the fingering 1/(2)3/4 on every note before continuing to the next one.

Not sure if you're referring to something like this, but I use this practice alot. Maintaining the hand shape is critical.

 

[ctrlzjones]

Not sure if you're referring to something like this, but I use this practice alot. Maintaining the hand shape is critical.

Yep, this is totally it.
We still do not now if 'real teachers' advise that practise for 'beginners' but again: it helped me alot ... going through the arpeggios/scales like that for every single note ... even without the bow ...

 

[Tom Lane]

bow = burrito
pizz = TNC



...really, it's JUST a joke!

 

[Don Kasper]

Another exercise that helped me a lot is to forget about positions and do the scales/arpeggios changing the fingering 'on spot'.
That is changing the fingering 1/(2)3/4 on every note before continuing to the next one.

YES!
Also known as "Finger Substitutions" - even better to play them Molto Legato, with NO gap in the sound or stroke of the bow.
Thanks.

 

[Tom Lane]

YES!
Also known as "Finger Substitutions" - even better to play them Molto Legato, with NO gap in the sound or stroke of the bow.
Thanks.

Sadist! Combine that Goldsby's bow exercises and you'll be doing 8 notes per stroke while standing on one leg!

 

[Don Kasper]

Hertz SO Good!!!
Actually, I learned to do this on only 1 note, in BOTH directions - It helps develop the feeling of never losing contact with the string, no matter how large the shift.
Thanks.

 

[ctrlzjones]

Sadist! Combine that Goldsby's bow exercises and you'll be doing 8 notes per stroke while standing on one leg!

no! it's total bliss for the real martyr.

 

[fdeck]

Isn't that the situation when you engage the 'open strings countercheck'?

A rule of cello playing is: Never play on an open string. Instead, play it out of tune, then turn around and glare at the bassists.

 

[gerry grable]

Difficult in Db.

I used to have an very interesting paper back book, Conversations With Casals, which I lost (probably loaned out?) and have never been able to find another copy. In the book, Casals insisted that there is actually a difference between a Db and a C#. He said the D's were flatter and the Cs were sharper. Has anyone here ever heard of this?

 

[fdeck]

I used to have an very interesting paper back book, Conversations With Casals, which I lost (probably loaned out?) and have never been able to find another copy. In the book, Casals insisted that there is actually a difference between a Db and a C#. He said the D's were flatter and the Cs were sharper. Has anyone here ever heard of this?

Yes. I heard this from my two cello teachers, and my bass teacher. Granted, I'm not a theory expert, but my understanding was as follows: When you play a major scale, you can ever-so-slightly stretch the whole steps and squeeze the half steps to make the scale sound "more major." More generally, tiny deviations from nominal intonation can be an expressive tool.

However, I doubt that my intonation was good enough at the time, or even now, to give me that kind of control. I'm satisfied to pursue intonation that is simply closer to nominal all the time.

 

[Tom Lane]

Has anyone ever done a study on how some musicians, who are primarily playing equal temperament, intentionally deviate for effect? I'm not talking about the occasional mistake. I think I've heard singers like Sheila Jordan do that, and I'm pretty sure I've heard accomplished players intentionally play a Major 7th higher than equal temperament. Miles played a pretty great "smear" in My Favorite Things. Don't string quartets not use equal temperament?

 

[fdeck]

Don't string quartets not use equal temperament?

The first violinist is typically a little more highly strung than the violist.

But when I played cello, the only way I learned to tune, was in perfect fifths, which would have been "just" intonation I think. It's no different in an orchestra. As I understand it, none of the instruments are strictly tempered -- that's a thing for keyboards. Wind instrument intonation is a balance of ugly compromises. I played flute too, and C# was whatever it wanted to be. You had to push the notes around in order to really get in tune -- a matter of skill that I never really attained.