Using a Metronome, Sight Reading, and When to Move On?

[baddarryl]

Hi all. I am the perennial player that only learned songs and covers and now am trying to actually learn bass. Been at if for a while actually. At this point I am trying to learn sight reading. I learned treble clef as a kid playing Alto Sax in middle school (Thank Ms. Maness!) and now many Molton's later I am applying that to bass. Should have learned piano first right? Lol.

Anyway I am using the metronome to work through exercises with Mel Bay's "Note Reading Studies for Bass". I read well enough that I can usually after a run or two make it cleanly at about 80Bpm. Slow right? Anyway, if I keep increasing speed and can play the piece smoothly at X bpm, at what point should I be satisfied and move on?

I know there is no right answer, but what is your approach to anyone that does this?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Well, a couple of things. First, if what you're doing is running through something a couple of times and then trying to play it through at a certain tempo and then start trying to play it at a faster tempo, you're not really WORKING ON SIGHT READING, you're working on LEARNING A PIECE OF MUSIC. That is, by the time you've run through something a certain number of times, you aren't quite reading it any more, you're playing a part you've learned.
Which yes, is kind of what you want to be able to do working in a pit band (which rehearses) or an orchestra (which rehearses) or a big band (which rehearses). Because, yes, any time you get the chart ahead of time you do want to read through to see where the parts that you'll have to stop and spend time to work out fingerings and string changes and position shifts etc.

But if you are trying to work on cold reading a part, put on the metronome (chosen tempo commensurate with ability and the difficulty of the part) and JUST READ IT THROUGH. Don't stop, if you miss something KEEP GOING IN TIME. Take note of what caused you to stumble and then go back and take a look. Was it a fingering issue, shifting issue, string crossing? Were you not able to catch a certain arrangement of syncopated notes, interval jumps, etc.? Are you catching all the rhythmic notation but skating on the pitches? Or vice versa? That gives you direction as to stuff you need to shed AWAY from reading practice.

 

[buldog5151bass]

^ This. Sight reading is not learning a specific part, it's learning to play a part cold with the dots in front of you.

 

[Malcolm35]

Yes, slow down and then move faster in small steps does seem to work. Years as a rhythm guitarist has my internal clock in pretty good shape. I stopped using a metronome when it got in the way of grooving with the rest of the band.

Metronome is static, live Country, Pop, and Rock in the World I play in, is not static. So, when should I be satisfied? IMO when you and the rest of the band can play together. I found out if the guys were leaving me I had to adjust, they were not going to slow down just for me. So roots on one till I had room for the five on the three.

Had a friend when we were first starting out playing Country, in a cover band, this friend, who will remain nameless, got all bent out of shape because the lead female vocalist did not follow the beat. Notice I said I had a friend - turns out the vocalist was the Wife of the Director. My friend elected to stay with a metronome beat and because of this he no longer plays with us and is having fun at home playing in his bedroom - with his metronome.

Metronome is a great tool, but it is just a tool. When it gets in the way of playing with others - others always wins.

Of course, IMO.

 

[baddarryl]

Yes, slow down and then move faster in small steps does seem to work. Years as a rhythm guitarist has my internal clock in pretty good shape. I stopped using a metronome when it got in the way of grooving with the rest of the band.

Metronome is static, live Country, Pop, and Rock in the World I play in, is not static. So, when should I be satisfied? IMO when you and the rest of the band can play together. I found out if the guys were leaving me I had to adjust, they were not going to slow down just for me. So roots on one till I had room for the five on the three.

Had a friend when we were first starting out playing Country, in a cover band, this friend, who will remain nameless, got all bent out of shape because the lead female vocalist did not follow the beat. Notice I said I had a friend - turns out the vocalist was the Wife of the Director. My friend elected to stay with a metronome beat and because of this he no longer plays with us and is having fun at home playing in his bedroom - with his metronome.

Metronome is a great tool, but it is just a tool. When it gets in the way of playing with others - others always wins.

Of course, IMO.

I do fine playing with live bands. I don't see the metronome as harmful, but what you say is worth consideration. Thanks.

 

[Phil Smith]

If you want to get better at reading music seek out projects that require reading. If you can't find any projects, pick a different piece of music every day or whenever you can and just play it down. Make note of where you have problems i.e. specific rhythmic figures, fingering etc. and spend a little time on that slowly.

 

[jallenbass]

If you want to get better at reading music seek out projects that require reading.

That's what did it for me many years ago.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Don't just look for bass parts. Look for songs/melodies written in bass clef. Likely more diverse parts, and more interesting to play solo.

 

[lfmn16]

I do fine playing with live bands. I don't see the metronome as harmful, but what you say is worth consideration. Thanks.

+1

First, you’re right that metronomes aren’t harmful; if a metronome gets in the way, you’re not using it right.

I’d suggest lessons with a really good teacher. They can help you decide when you’ve taken a piece as far as you reasonably can. Time with a really good teacher will help you learn how to teach yourself.

 

[groooooove]

Hi all. I am the perennial player that only learned songs and covers and now am trying to actually learn bass. Been at if for a while actually. At this point I am trying to learn sight reading. I learned treble clef as a kid playing Alto Sax in middle school (Thank Ms. Maness!) and now many Molton's later I am applying that to bass. Should have learned piano first right? Lol.

Anyway I am using the metronome to work through exercises with Mel Bay's "Note Reading Studies for Bass". I read well enough that I can usually after a run or two make it cleanly at about 80Bpm. Slow right? Anyway, if I keep increasing speed and can play the piece smoothly at X bpm, at what point should I be satisfied and move on?

I know there is no right answer, but what is your approach to anyone that does this?

I think your focus is way too small/specific.

obviously, the question of tempo matters. I've seen master classical players read difficult 16th note passages at high a high tempo. we all wish we were that good.

your goal should be remaining consistent with working on reading. tempo is definitely one of the things to watch, but don't fuss too much about it. Sight reading for someone who's in the process of working on it should be just hard enough that you have perhaps 1-2 small errors every few measures. if your missing more than that, work on something easier, and if you are nailing it it's time to work on something harder.

if you are topping out at 80, perhaps your goal should be 100 in a month from now or something like that. but again, the big thing is being consistent. just keep reading and it'll all come together in time.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Anyway, if I keep increasing speed and can play the piece smoothly at X bpm, at what point should I be satisfied and move on?

Post #2 did a great job covering it. I’d say that you should move on from playing a piece once the piece is played at the speed it’s intended to be played at. But that’s for learning a piece, not improving sight reading.

I also, my quickest improvements in sight reading came when I was in big bands, wind ensembles, orchestras, pit bands and would sight read new stuff daily. See if there’s a community group you could play with. I even played tuba parts on electric and/or upright bass for a couple groups. (That helped transposition real quick!) Just keep reading new stuff, at tempo or slightly under where it’s marked, don’t stop, get to the end of the song at the right moment, then go back and see what hung you up and work on it.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Hi all. I am the perennial player that only learned songs and covers and now am trying to actually learn bass. Been at if for a while actually. At this point I am trying to learn sight reading. I learned treble clef as a kid playing Alto Sax in middle school (Thank Ms. Maness!) and now many Molton's later I am applying that to bass. Should have learned piano first right? Lol.

Anyway I am using the metronome to work through exercises with Mel Bay's "Note Reading Studies for Bass". I read well enough that I can usually after a run or two make it cleanly at about 80Bpm. Slow right? Anyway, if I keep increasing speed and can play the piece smoothly at X bpm, at what point should I be satisfied and move on?

I know there is no right answer, but what is your approach to anyone that does this?

IMO, you should not use a metronome until you have the exercise down WITHOUT it. The metronome forces you to play through your mistakes; you'll never improve this way.

 

[SLO Surfer]

IMO, you should not use a metronome until you have the exercise down WITHOUT it. The metronome forces you to play through your mistakes; you'll never improve this way.

I disagree. If the OP’s goal is to become better at sight reading, using the metronome will help. If his goal is to become better at a piece/song, then perhaps slowly going note by note first and then adding the metronome later to build up speed would be better.

 

[dreamadream99]

metronome to work through exercises

A metronome is a good thing to sightread with. It takes the place of the band, which will keep going whether you make a mistake or not. That is why it is important, not to slow down or go back. If you were site reading with a band, they would not slow down or stop for you, if you are having trouble. If you make a mistake, keep going. If you can’t keep going, the beat does. So regroup and re-join the next measure.

 

[baddarryl]

Thanks for the discussion everyone. Personally I learned how to play bass by ear moving the needle back and forth, then playing along once I got it before ever playing with a band. Every teacher or good player I have ever known has beat the metronome ideology into my skull. People say I have good time. That's not going to change.

However, I hear you about once learning the piece it really isn't sight reading anymore. I remember that from school brass bands. Once I got a piece down I'd really only reference the score to keep track of where we were. Maybe as I do this more I'll be able to read and play at a faster pace. That is the goal.

Reaching outside the box for people to study with is a good suggestion. Thanks.

 

[seanm]

I used to play sax in a community concert band. Everything was sight reading... but we would take the music home and practice.

Every once in a blue moon the director would pass out a polka book and we had to sight read one piece. Then he took the books back. It was just to practice reading cold. It was kinda fun too.

 

[BassChuck]

Many people focus on metronomes to solve sight reading issues. And there is a level of truth to that. One thing that is overlooked is knowledge of the neck. You can't know the neck to well. At any given time in the music you have to be aware of all the notes that are close by and how you're going to get to them.
Reading ahead and seeing any huge jumps of range will help you in choosing where to place a note. For instance, if you see you'll soon need to play a top space G and there the notes soon will be in the upper range, you might choose to play that G on the A string instead of the D strings. These are skills that come with time, but knowing the neck well and knowing your options is a huge advantage.
Consider this, if you took an excellent sight reading piano player who had a faultless sense of time and gave them an electric bass (that they knew nothing about) and ask them to sight read, the knowledge of the written note, and the great sense of timing would be of little help since they wouldn't know the neck and where the note are.
Learn the neck. Review the neck. Remind yourself of all the notes every day. (the muscles don't need as much warming up as the brain)

 

[fu22ba55]

Check out sightreadingfactory.com if you haven't already.

It's like $20 or $30 bucks for the whole year.

It randomly generates sheet music for you, so you don't "memorize" the material. Play it once or twice and move on.