Double Bass Using King Moretone or American Standard basses in Bluegrass

[martinc]

Picking up on this …. from my experience it seems what the application might be on these bass makes and models. If outdoors on a festival gig any might work ok, depending on the sound man/micing technic/quality. But in a studio retrying to track a high quality recording (like Barry Bales, Mark Fain, etc.) one might choose a different make and/or model ? Or do you think it could be done with one in the same?

speedman: Maybe Superman will chime in on this. He is well-versed on this has posted on this subject before.

 

[brianrost]

The Kay is just the P-bass of the DB world.

Guys like Barry Bales and Mark Schatz are not playing Kays any more because it doesn't suit the modern bluegrass sound.

It was also often used in jazz, supposedly Slam Stewart played one and of course Chubby Jackson had 5 string signature model.

 

[martinc]

The Kay is just the P-bass of the DB world.

Guys like Barry Bales and Mark Schatz are not playing Kays any more because it doesn't suit the modern bluegrass sound.

It was also often used in jazz, supposedly Slam Stewart played one and of course Chubby Jackson had 5 string signature model.

Brian: Did Mark Schatz ever use a Kay? I have not seen him play one......not after the 1980's.
And.....the "modern bluegrass sound". What is that? To me the modern bluegrass sound seems to be (mainly for convenience) an EUB, such as the Eminence.
The Holy Grail of strings/sound still seems to be guts...or other strings that are closest to the bottom end sound of guts. A Kay with guts to me is the most common example of the traditional bluegrass sounds.
If you are thinking the zingy jazz sound...... then a set of Spiro Mittels on any bass would do.

 

[anightintunisia]

I just bought a Kay two weeks ago and can't put the thing down. I love fully carved basses, but there is something about the punch of a Kay that is great for bluegrass, or traditional bluegrass. I had to bow a little bit on my Kay tonight at a gig, and immediately missed my carved bass. But for driving traditional bluegrass, Kay's, set up properly, are great. American Standards are great basses, great low end. Every room, every sound system, and every band with different players will sound different. An AS might work great one night, a Kay or a fully carved bass might work better the next night at a different gig with a different band. Personally, I like having options. I'd love to be able to pick between a Kay, AS, hybrid, and a fully carved bass. Wishful thinking though.

 

[lowEndRick]

My progression has been Holbein->50s era Meisel ply->Upton Hybrid->>>

Now I have a New Standard Cleveland with Sprio Mittels and a 1940 Kay with guts.

The Kay was restored by Arnold Schnitzer and I had him fatten up the neck with a shim and an internal carbon rod.

I love both basses although they certainly have their own unique qualities. Common between both is that they both produce a nice warm yet percussive thump that is perfect for bluegrass. Both have awesome setups, thanks to Arnold, and are a dream to play.

 

[martinc]

My progression has been Holbein->50s era Meisel ply->Upton Hybrid->>>

Now I have a New Standard Cleveland with Sprio Mittels and a 1940 Kay with guts.

The Kay was restored by Arnold Schnitzer and I had him fatten up the neck with a shim and an internal metal rod.

I love both basses although they certainly have their own unique qualities. Common between both is that they both produce a nice warm yet percussive thump that is perfect for bluegrass. Both have awesome setups thanks to Arnold and are a dream to play.

Rick: Lucky guy! My old 1949 Kay C-1 had a fine bluegrass thump after it was set up properly. Unfortunately I never thought about fattening up the neck....or I would probably still have it. But I am quite satisfied with my Eberle.

 

[rolandm]

In case you're not following Ed Friedland/TBW on Facebook (and why would you not, right?), he just snagged a King Moretone.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

In case you're not following Ed Friedland/TBW on Facebook (and why would you not, right?), he just snagged a King Moretone.

Now that's patina! Lovely.

 

[superman]

Standards and Kings both tend to much more even than Kays,now there are exceptions to any,Ive seen some dang good Kays,,and some bad sounding Standards I think the best Kays Ive ever played were pre war 36-39,,that goes for Kings and Standards as well, As more Standards surface I hear some that are almost too big and hollow sounding,they lack note definition .Just because they sound big and loud dosent mean they are all that good, but It does depend on what you use it for, I still have my old Standard that I used on the road, I mainly use if on bluegrass gigs where I'm going to mic or play loud with out a amp ,It cuts a mic like no other , but for recording it's not that great .Ive had a number of conversations with audio engineers about what they like /dislike about recording upright basses, and just about all of them say the unevenness of most plywoods is the worst thing they have to fight, another thing I think really hurts recording or just using a mic on a upright these days is the over use of compression. I think it is used sometimes to help balance out the unevenness the bass may produce, in return it just takes the soul from the instrument. I recently heard some newer bluegrass band on XM, and the bass was so compressed you couldn't hear the tone of the note. I did some research and found the player was playing a Standard , again I think the set up and strings also make the difference. I do belive a lot of bluegrass players sell themselves short by not buying a decent bass,, and not getting a good setup,but on the other hand Ive watch Travis Lewis a million times back in the day playing the Lewis familys old beat up Kay with 40yr old Supernyls on it and sounding like Bob Moore. A good bass can produce a much richer almost 2 dimensional sound when set up right and recorded/mixed right but it also comes down to the man pulling the strings. Back to the King/Standard bass, they are somewhat a challenge with the longer scale ,and if you switch basses it will mess with you .I have 3 basses I play One Standard with the 43"scale,one German carved bass with a 40" scale and a Eb neck, and then a German with a 41" scale and a D neck,,that will mess with me if I don't get which ever bass out and play it for a few days before I gig/record with it.

 

[martinc]

superman wrote".......I've watch Travis Lewis a million times back in the day playing the Lewis family's old beat up Kay with 40yr old Supernyls on it and sounding like Bob Moore......"

This sentence really got my attention.
Anyone got a set of 40 year Supernyls for sale? I have been trying to sound like Bob Moore for 15 years.

Great post Kent.