Valenti

[Peter Parker]

+1


The trouble is, I don't have the expertise to know exactly how seat the pickups for ultimate sound or how to crimp the connections "just so" to make sure they stay connected or the exact amount of shielding foil to make sure the bass doesn't hum. This is stuff that Nino, and Roger, and Lee Barker, and other professionals have learned the old-fashioned way -- with a lot of sweat and frustration. With my busy life, I also don't have time to learn.

The time factor is actually the most important. The older we get, the less disposable time we have and most folks are wiling to trade time for money. That's why you hire professionals to do work for you that you don't have time to do. And that's where custom builders earn their money. They have the ability to create something that delivers a value that is greater than the sum of the parts.

IMO, they're worth every penny.

I agree with you 100% on the time factor. That is one of the real values of a Valenti bass to the less inclined or those with little time. But your post also helps prove my point. You say you don't have the expertise for the seating of the pups and "crimping" of the connections and the shielding tape and so forth. Guess what? You do. These things aren't some sort of mathematic equation. People have this misconception, a voodoo about these things. There are no hard fast rules on where to place pup height, put solder on a "crimped" wire it'll stay put, put as much shielding tape or paint as you can or want into a cavity it won't hurt a thing. While this may not look pretty it won't effect the sound. Pup height, raise or lower until it sounds good to you. See this isn't so hard

 

[king_biscuit]

Judging by the number of posts by some on this forum, I'd say that a lack of free time is not an issue

 

[RunngDog]

Diversions in life is where people learn the most

Fair enough, but I'd still like to read responses to the original question.

 

[jondog]

Nino,

don't sweat it, man. Just sit back, relax, be quiet and let your work speak for you...LOUD AND CLEAR!

Hey Nino, good seeing you again at the GTG! PilbaraBass has very good advice here, for any business. If you're just a guy then go ahead and throw your 2 cents into every thread about your basses, but if you're a business let your work speak for itself. That doesn't mean don't read or post in the threads, it just means respond to specific questions in a brief and factual manner and leave most other stuff alone (unless it's something *huge* like a mythical feature scandal).

IMO Peter Parker never said anything negative, he thinks basic assembly is easy and others don't and a discussion has ensued. Telling people you specify body weight is good and clear and factual, but even something as simple as "what is your point?" comes across as defensive and businesses with high quality products should never acknowledge they have anything to defend in the first place. This is just my recommendation from a business communication perspective, it's all IMO.

With regard to the ease issue, I built myself a parts bass with a Vaccaro body (very high quality) and an SX neck (low price but I handpicked it so it's very good quality). I put several days into the project and the bass looks and sounds great but is only so-so on set-up and feel. I've played Nino's basses and have no doubt that if I had handed him the pile of parts I would have a better bass right now. It was a learning experience and mostly fun, but I don't play this bass very often due to the lack of feel.

Also, along with ease or difficulty of labor, we should all remember price range in these discussions -- a $1500 bass is nowhere on my horizon, I am having way too much fun with my cheap basses. I've played many expensive basses at the get-togthers and elsewhere but for whatever reason I do not get excited by them. At minimum it takes *time* to put together your own parts bass, how much is your time worth? Everybody has to make that decision for themselves, sometimes I calculate it by how much I earn at my regular job (except that I *really* value my time off). I have a good job, so at my "usual" hourly rate, plus the price of the parts, my bass cost a lot more than $1500. It should feel a lot better for that price, maybe I should return it to the builder, but oh yeah, that's me! My skills are already maxed so . . .

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33882&d=1146447017

 

[policyvote]

its great that you're trying to peace the divide, but IMHO, dont put validation to the crass nature of what peter's saying. he hasnt even touched one of nino's instruments, and yet feels the need to use him as an example and judge his work.

I don't think what he's saying IS crass. Nino has put the time, effort, and dedication into building great basses. Nowhere did Peter denigrate the quality of the end product. He just said that if one buys high-quality prefab parts, studies up on things, pays attention to detail, and practices like crazy, many could produce similar results. I don't think that's untrue.

What makes the difference between most people here and Nino is that Nino shopped around for the best parts, studies up on things, pays attention to detail, and practiced like crazy. That has made him a builder of great basses. He may not be a "great luthier" like a Ken Smith, Carl Thompson, Jerzey Drozd, or any of the other dozens of top-notch luthiers that start with a tree and a twinkle in their eye--but he designs them, puts them together, and they're wonderful instruments at a great price.

So he outsources a lot of the highly specialized work--how is that different from hiring a great painter to do your finishes for you, or a skilled electrician to design and craft a preamp for you, or rent time at a CNC shop with a skilled operator, or any other trade of skills along the way? Nino's method gets you, the customer, the most quality for the least money--and it's Nino's own time, dedication, passion, and experience that turns a "Warmoth/USGC frankenbass" into a Valenti. Just because there are many who COULD get similar results IF they tried as hard for as long doesn't make Nino's achievements any less remarkable.

Peace
policy

 

[IotaNet]

I don't think what he's saying IS crass. Nino has put the time, effort, and dedication into building great basses. Nowhere did Peter denigrate the quality of the end product. He just said that if one buys high-quality prefab parts, studies up on things, pays attention to detail, and practices like crazy, many could produce similar results. I don't think that's untrue ...

... Nino's method gets you, the customer, the most quality for the least money--and it's Nino's own time, dedication, passion, and experience that turns a "Warmoth/USGC frankenbass" into a Valenti. Just because there are many who COULD get similar results IF they tried as hard for as long doesn't make Nino's achievements any less remarkable.

+1 Very nicely put.

And for the record, I do believe that Nino's achievements are QUITE remarkable. (Heck, I'm emailing him for a quote as we discuss this.)

 

[Nino Valenti]

Hey Nino, good seeing you again at the GTG! PilbaraBass has very good advice here, for any business. If you're just a guy then go ahead and throw your 2 cents into every thread about your basses, but if you're a business let your work speak for itself. That doesn't mean don't read or post in the threads, it just means respond to specific questions in a brief and factual manner and leave most other stuff alone (unless it's something *huge* like a mythical feature scandal).

IMO Peter Parker never said anything negative, he thinks basic assembly is easy and others don't and a discussion has ensued. Telling people you specify body weight is good and clear and factual, but even something as simple as "what is your point?" comes across as defensive and businesses with high quality products should never acknowledge they have anything to defend in the first place. This is just my recommendation from a business communication perspective, it's all IMO.

With regard to the ease issue, I built myself a parts bass with a Vaccaro body (very high quality) and an SX neck (low price but I handpicked it so it's very good quality). I put several days into the project and the bass looks and sounds great but is only so-so on set-up and feel. I've played Nino's basses and have no doubt that if I had handed him the pile of parts I would have a better bass right now. It was a learning experience and mostly fun, but I don't play this bass very often due to the lack of feel.

Also, along with ease or difficulty of labor, we should all remember price range in these discussions -- a $1500 bass is nowhere on my horizon, I am having way too much fun with my cheap basses. I've played many expensive basses at the get-togthers and elsewhere but for whatever reason I do not get excited by them. At minimum it takes *time* to put together your own parts bass, how much is your time worth? Everybody has to make that decision for themselves, sometimes I calculate it by how much I earn at my regular job (except that I *really* value my time off). I have a good job, so at my "usual" hourly rate, plus the price of the parts, my bass cost a lot more than $1500. It should feel a lot better for that price, maybe I should return it to the builder, but oh yeah, that's me! My skills are already maxed so . . .

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33882&d=1146447017

I feel that Peter is being sneaky. Saying it's easy to build a bolt on bass.

Then he'll say, I as a builder start from scratch, etc, etc.

Sneaky way of saying what I do is better than what you do. This is all IMO.

 

[Ed Goode]

What other task do you suppose would be near impossible? What do attribute tone and playability to?

First, just to be clear, I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't own/play any of the referenced basses now, nor have I owned any of them in the past ..... in other words, I have no specific agenda here ....

I have built 3 "kit" basses. Each bass had it's own issues, but in brief my problems were:
- neck/body joints not smooth or gaps
- improper pick-up fit into the cavity(ies)
- bridge placement on one was wrong and created a mess of a job when correcting it
- fret work rough, neck(s) needed to be completely re-dressed by a pro

Even when completed and "refreshed" by a local, qualified tech, the basses in no way on a par with the quality of a Valenti or the others. They may have been comparable to a nicely dressed SX. Yes, they were playable in that they had an acceptable tone and stayed in tune. For the young kids I donated them to, they were perfect. For me, as a very experienced bassist, they were sub-standard at best.

Regarding playability and tone, I'm going to quote IotaNet here, since he said it better than I could

The trouble is, I don't have the expertise to know exactly how seat the pickups for ultimate sound or how to crimp the connections "just so" to make sure they stay connected or the exact amount of shielding foil to make sure the bass doesn't hum. This is stuff that Nino, and Roger, and Lee Barker, and other professionals have learned the old-fashioned way -- with a lot of sweat and frustration. With my busy life, I also don't have time to learn.

The time factor is actually the most important. The older we get, the less disposable time we have and most folks are wiling to trade time for money. That's why you hire professionals to do work for you that you don't have time to do. And that's where custom builders earn their money. They have the ability to create something that delivers a value that is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

[jokerjkny]

I don't think what he's saying IS crass. Nino has put the time, effort, and dedication into building great basses. Nowhere did Peter denigrate the quality of the end product. (...)

yea, crass is a strong word, but his overall sublimated belittling tone only mocks what nino has accomplished. i.e. peter's "i work with raw wood", "I know a thing or two. It is easy." "If I didn't have a luthiers inclination I would definitely consider a Valenti.", etc.

his constant backtracking only reinforces my feelings. when peter hands me one of his nebulous basses and sells it to me, i'll shut up. nino sticks his neck out to build this community a great line of basses, so i guess i shouldnt be surprised when another so called unsung luthier has to come along and piss on the parade.

 

[king_biscuit]

I can not belive how contentious people are getting over this. Everybody should just buy what they want a not worry what others think!

 

[policyvote]

his constant backtracking only reinforces my feelings. when peter hands me one of his nebulous basses and sells it to me, i'll shut up.

Yeah, I guess all this song and dance boils down to execution: the difference between Nino and everyone who could do it if they tried really hard is that Nino has done it.

Peace
policy

 

[Peter Parker]

First, just to be clear, I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't own/play any of the referenced basses now, nor have I owned any of them in the past ..... in other words, I have no specific agenda here ....

I have built 3 "kit" basses. Each bass had it's own issues, but in brief my problems were:
- neck/body joints not smooth or gaps
- improper pick-up fit into the cavity(ies)
- bridge placement on one was wrong and created a mess of a job when correcting it
- fret work rough, neck(s) needed to be completely re-dressed by a pro

Even when completed and "refreshed" by a local, qualified tech, the basses in no way on a par with the quality of a Valenti or the others. They may have been comparable to a nicely dressed SX. Yes, they were playable in that they had an acceptable tone and stayed in tune. For the young kids I donated them to, they were perfect. For me, as a very experienced bassist, they were sub-standard at best.

Regarding playability and tone, I'm going to quote IotaNet here, since he said it better than I could

There's the problem. You didn't use quality parts like you get from Warmoth or USCG. Their pockets and cavities are done well. Their frets are very good.

 

[Peter Parker]

yea, crass is a strong word, but his overall sublimated belittling tone only mocks what nino has accomplished. i.e. peter's "i work with raw wood", "I know a thing or two. It is easy." "If I didn't have a luthiers inclination I would definitely consider a Valenti.", etc.

his constant backtracking only reinforces my feelings. when peter hands me one of his nebulous basses and sells it to me, i'll shut up. nino sticks his neck out to build this community a great line of basses, so i guess i shouldnt be surprised when another so called unsung luthier has to come along and piss on the parade.

What the hell are you talking about? Backtracking? I never meant to imply that building from raw wood is better than building from parts. There's certainly instances that make it more customizable but that doesn't make overall quality any better. I'm not back tracking anything. I've not said anything negative about Nino. Clearly you guys are reading the words but have comprehension. If you went back and really looked at my remarks I suppose what I'm saying could be considered a dig at Sadowsky while building Nino up. I said the wheels on the whole Sadowsky mystique could come off if people figure out that assembling a bass from well made parts is not that difficult. Apparently in a very short time Nino has figured out how to do it leaving some on this form to believe his basses are as good or better than sadowsky. What does that say about Roger's experience? Maybe nothing. I just made a joke not meant to know Nino or Roger but I can see how it could knock Roger. Yet no one is ranting about that. Again, due to the limitations of the interenet and forums such as this I realize it's difficult really pickup the intent of a post, that if you could hear me say what I'm saying you'd see that I am not attacking anyone. Hey, I'm nothing special. I can build a bass from scratch, from parts, so what? You guys are getting ridiculous.

 

[Juniorkimbrough]

i'm still waiting on pics......

 

[mrbungle]

I never advertized my basses as anything other than basses built using Warmoth or USACG parts. I never EVER called myself a luthier. What is your point here?

I asked USACG and Warmoth to pick out the lightest possible bodies. Does that count as me picking "good woods"?

I moved to USACG because they are more accepting to doing different neck radii, neck thicknesses, etc. Can't that be considered having influence on neck shape?

I cut all the nuts on my basses. A few early ones has graphtech precut nuts but I prefer to cut the nuts myself.

IME, Warmoth and USACG frets are excellent and I've only had to do some minor leveling/re-crowning to a few necks.

I'll put my set up against anyone.

Again, what's your point? Again, I never EVER called myself a luthier.

Well, my point was that I visited www.valentibasses.com, and in the In Stock- and Features/Options sections there was no mention about Warmoth and USACG. This is misleading, in the consumers point of view. I bet your products are kickass, though.

 

[Peter Parker]

i'm still waiting on pics......

You'll be waiting a little while. I'm prototyping a couple designs. If they go well I'll post pics. Hell, if they don't go well I'll post pics

 

[jondog]

I feel that Peter is being sneaky. Saying it's easy to build a bolt on bass.

Then he'll say, I as a builder start from scratch, etc, etc.

Sneaky way of saying what I do is better than what you do. This is all IMO.

Yes that's how a lot of people are interpreting it, let Peter Parker say what he wants, there are plenty of folks arguing against him already. When you or the president of any business engages random mudslingers you dignify and legitimate their complaints with your response. [imo he's not slinging much mud but he's definitely random, having never played a Valenti] Your basses are high quality and you should let them speak for themselves. Answering questions about specific products is an entirely different and very productive kind of discussion and posts from builders, reps, artists, etc. like you help make TB great!

 

[Peter Parker]

I feel that Peter is being sneaky. Saying it's easy to build a bolt on bass.

Then he'll say, I as a builder start from scratch, etc, etc.

Sneaky way of saying what I do is better than what you do. This is all IMO.

I understand how you could interpret what I'm saying like this but please understand, that is not my intent. I do not feel what I do is better method. To me it's just that, a method. The end product is all that matters not the process. WHen I listen to all the new flashy bass players I don't get hung up in the techniques being used, I don't care. I'm only interested in the notes. Same thing with basses. My friend can slap just like Victor and he says it's easy. To him it is, he picked it with very little effort. My other friend loves that style but it took him a bit longer to get the technique under his fingers. They both play Vics style equally well, which one is better?

 

[Nino Valenti]

Well, my point was that I visited www.valentibasses.com, and in the In Stock- and Features/Options sections there was no mention about Warmoth and USACG. This is misleading, in the consumers point of view. I bet your products are kickass, though.

You didn't look hard enough.

1-The last paragraph in my "Bio" page.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

What I'm doing with “Valenti Basses®“ is taking what I've learned from Maggio Music, Sadowsky Guitars, 10 years worth of gigging & using all that knowledge to build the best possible bass at the best possible price. I'm using high quality parts & hardware such as Warmoth, HipShot, Aguilar, DiMarzio, BassLines, EMG, Gotoh, etc to bring the consumer the best possible bass that will last more than one lifetime.

2-On the home page, there is a link to an interview that I did with BassNutz:
Link Removed

BN: Time for a bit of self-promo! Tell us a bit more about the basses you are currently building. Model types, specs, customizations, etc.

NV: I’m building classic designed 4 and 5 string basses using Warmoth necks and bodies, HipShot Hardware, Aguilar Preamps. I’ve built basses with a DiMarzio, BassLine, EMG, Nordstrand and Sadowsky pickups.

3-I'm on the Warmoth website stating that I use their necks and bodies:
Invalid Link Removed

4-On the USACG website:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
We offer custom peghead shapes, either programmed into our CNC for multiple neck orders or individually "hand cut" by our master luthier Brett Faust.

Valenti 4 String Peghead - CNC cut

5-On my Links page, I have links to both USACG and Warmoth.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Nino Valenti]

I understand how you could interpret what I'm saying like this but please understand, that is not my intent. I do not feel what I do is better method. To me it's just that, a method. The end product is all that matters not the process. WHen I listen to all the new flashy bass players I don't get hung up in the techniques being used, I don't care. I'm only interested in the notes. Same thing with basses. My friend can slap just like Victor and he says it's easy. To him it is, he picked it with very little effort. My other friend loves that style but it took him a bit longer to get the technique under his fingers. They both play Vics style equally well, which one is better?

I apologize. jondog is right. My 1st post was late at night and even though I thought I should not post it, in my sleepy stuper, I posted it.