Varitone vs Tone Knob - Opinions

[Mike in MI]

I've got a 2006 Birdsong Cortobass. It's a terrific short scale bass. The only thing I haven't gotten used to is the varitone control. It's my first bass with one, and I thought I was really going to love it. But I don't find myself enjoying most of the options it provides, and for me something seems to be lacking. It's almost like the tone I'm looking for is somewhere in between the clicks of the varitone.

I love a passive tone control and the ability to gradually roll off the tone until I hit the sweet spot that I'm looking for. Maybe I just haven't had enough experience with the varitone? I'm curious how others feel about it vs a traditional tone control.

 

[SulzerType2]

Do you mean a true Varitone with an inductor? I've messed around with these in s few basses. They are basically a passive notch filter that can give some interesting nasal or scooped tones but, being passive, rob you of output signal.


A decade switch is simpler, being a bunch of capacitors on a rotary switch. I've experimented again but found that I only liked one or two settings out of the six or so available.

 

[Will_White]

I like a varitone over a traditional tone control, because you shift the frequency of the cut off and resonant peak but you don't have to choose either or you can do both use a varitone to select the frequency and the tone control to change the slope.

 

[Mike in MI]

Do you mean a true Varitone with an inductor? I've messed around with these in s few basses. They are basically a passive notch filter that can give some interesting nasal or scooped tones but, being passive, rob you of output signal.


A decade switch is simpler, being a bunch of capacitors on a rotary switch. I've experimented again but found that I only liked one or two settings out of the six or so available.

According to the Birdsong website, the Varitone they used at the time was built "in house" so I'm not sure of the construction. Interestingly it is no longer offered in their basses. They recommend if you need a replacement to install the Stellartone - which according to my understanding does not use inductors but just a bunch of different capacitors on a rotary switch. Your assessment of this decade switch type of Varitone matches my experience exactly - that only one or two settings are useful - at least for me.

 

[Jefenator]

I tried the tonestyler in micro-pedal form for a minute, but decided I am perfectly content with a standard .047 passive tone control.

 

[Sub41]

I installed a Stellartone ToneStyler B10 in a PJ with a stacked Master Volume/Depth control, Blend, and ToneStyler configuration. The depth control allows you to adjust each ToneStyler setting individually. To my ears the depth control works like a standard tone control which creates a lot of variety paired with 10 capacitors.

 

[Mike in MI]

I installed a Stellartone ToneStyler B10 in a PJ with a stacked Master Volume/Depth control, Blend, and ToneStyler configuration. The depth control allows you to adjust each ToneStyler setting individually. To my ears the depth control works like a standard tone control which creates a lot of variety paired with 10 capacitors.

This arrangement sounds like the best of both worlds. It gives you the classic roll off with a passive tone control so you can get the tone right in the sweet spot you are looking for, and you can do this on a variety of capacitor values thanks to the ToneStyler.

There are times when I wish my J Bass had a .1 capacitor instead of a .022, especially when rolling off the tone on the bridge pickup, but at other times the .022 is perfect for me. I'll have to look at installing something like this ToneStyler & Depth control combo.

 

[Sub41]

This arrangement sounds like the best of both worlds. It gives you the classic roll off with a passive tone control so you can get the tone right in the sweet spot you are looking for, and you can do this on a variety of capacitor values thanks to the ToneStyler.

There are times when I wish my J Bass had a .1 capacitor instead of a .022, especially when rolling off the tone on the bridge pickup, but at other times the .022 is perfect for me. I'll have to look at installing something like this ToneStyler & Depth control combo.

It definitely offers lots of sonic options. Settings I might not use with just the ToneStyler become usable with the depth knob. Thinking back to my conversations with the maker when I was considering this setup, his explanation of the depth knob sounds like a dry/wet control. If it’s too dark, you can blend in a bit of the original signal to avoid some of the bass boost and mid/treble cut. So there’s not really any ability to boost bass or cut mids/treble with the depth knob.

The ToneStyler has 10 positions, the first being your dry signal, then 9 levels of increasingly deeper tones. If you want deeper, you can find it with the TS knob and if you need to back off a little to hit an in-between spot, you use the depth control. I find it to have a greater range than a regular tone control would, and it’s very intuitive. Is it necessary? No, but I wanted to check one out and I’m glad I did.

 

[SulzerType2]

A good setup would be to have a decade switch which can be mixed in with a separate tone control. You could have a switchable inductor rather than dumping the output of the decade switch straight to ground.

 

[iiipopes]

And then there is a Bill Lawrence / Wilde Q-Filter which you can put on a push-pull and have either/or conventional tone rolloff or tone shaping of the Q-Filter. Much less expensive to get a good tone effect.

 

[Mike in MI]

And then there is a Bill Lawrence / Wilde Q-Filter which you can put on a push-pull and have either/or conventional tone rolloff or tone shaping of the Q-Filter. Much less expensive to get a good tone effect.

I’m glad you brought up the Q-Filter. I’ve been really curious to try one. I’ve wondered if I would find it to be more useful than a Varitone. Does anybody out there have a sound clip or two demonstrating one? I’ve had a hard time finding something that demonstrated how they sound.

 

[iiipopes]

I’m glad you brought up the Q-Filter. I’ve been really curious to try one. I’ve wondered if I would find it to be more useful than a Varitone. Does anybody out there have a sound clip or two demonstrating one? I’ve had a hard time finding something that demonstrated how they sound.

I don't have a sound clip, and I'm putting one on my next project bass. In the meantime, I have one on a guitar, and it lightens the tone for a good light, clear rhythm tone. I used it a lot years ago when I had a guitar gig that I didn't have room for more than one instrument on stage, so this was my acoustic emulation.

 

[Mike in MI]

I don't have a sound clip, and I'm putting one on my next project bass. In the meantime, I have one on a guitar, and it lightens the tone for a good light, clear rhythm tone. I used it a lot years ago when I had a guitar gig that I didn't have room for more than one instrument on stage, so this was my acoustic emulation.

Interesting you were able to get in the ballpark of an acoustic tone on guitar with the Q-Filter. I would love to hear that too. Anyhow, thanks for the information. I would love to hear/see that project bass when you get around to it.

 

[iiipopes]

Interesting you were able to get in the ballpark of an acoustic tone on guitar with the Q-Filter. I would love to hear that too. Anyhow, thanks for the information. I would love to hear/see that project bass when you get around to it.

It may be a couple of months before I get the project finished. In the meantime, the guitar Q-filter is wired on a push-pull on a two-humbucker guitar as recommended; so I have either tone or Q-Filter. It functions best with the selector switch in the middle position. See page 2, post 29, of this thread about my P-style fanned fret bass; the matching guitar it is installed in is also fanned fret.
A Different Custom P-style Bass | TalkBass.com

 

[Mike in MI]

Thanks for sharing that post. I went ahead and commented over there (post #43) because most of my commentary regarded your bass design as a whole (which is brilliant!). You should really license that design to a boutique builder out there - I would be interested in buying one, and I doubt I would be the only one.

 

[sunbeast]

If the “varitone” is indeed like a Stellartone then it is essentially just giving you the fully rolled-off tone knob tones with switchable capacitors.
When fully rolled-off, a tone control gives you a peak at the resonant frequency created by that specific capacitor, usually in the midrange, while most of the rest of the sweep of a typical tone control gives you a more straight treble/midrange roll off without any peak and is mostly unrelated to the attached capacitor (until you have the tone rolled off more than halfway). A tone control is really like a blend control in between an adjustable loading effect on the pickup (the top part of the range) into the set resonant frequency of the attached capacitor (at the bottom of the sweep). Dependent on the pickup and controls you might have a noticeable resonant peak at the top of the tone sweep (the resonant frequency of the pickup) then almost always at the bottom of the sweep (the resonant frequency of the attached capacitor).

As mentioned, adding a “depth” control to this kind of varitone can give you the best of both worlds- as the straight varitone control with its peak at each setting can sound “honky” or abrasive sometimes dependent on the range of capacitors used (though in a mix I often find those tones really cut or slot in on a way that you can’t hit with a traditional tone control). Even just a small fixed resistor switched in can dull that resonant peak (old G&L basses for example used a 6.8kohm capacitor between tone cap and ground to make the tone control less resonant when turned off), while a pot wired as a variable resistor will offer more range of tone though changing the varitone settings will be less apparent the more resistance you add.

 

[sikamikanico]

In my experience and for my tastes, the capacitor switch (decade switch) is most useful. The circuits with an inductor (varitone, Q-filter, etc) are interesting, but the added weight to me was not worth the trouble. Those may work better with thick pickups, like series humbuckers.

But what really increases the usefulness of a decade/capacitor switch is wiring the pickup(s) in parallel, if possible. This makes the bass brighter, and then you tune it with the loading capacitor.

 

[Mike in MI]

If the “varitone” is indeed like a Stellartone then it is essentially just giving you the fully rolled-off tone knob tones with switchable capacitors.
When fully rolled-off, a tone control gives you a peak at the resonant frequency created by that specific capacitor, usually in the midrange, while most of the rest of the sweep of a typical tone control gives you a more straight treble/midrange roll off without any peak and is mostly unrelated to the attached capacitor (until you have the tone rolled off more than halfway). A tone control is really like a blend control in between an adjustable loading effect on the pickup (the top part of the range) into the set resonant frequency of the attached capacitor (at the bottom of the sweep). Dependent on the pickup and controls you might have a noticeable resonant peak at the top of the tone sweep (the resonant frequency of the pickup) then almost always at the bottom of the sweep (the resonant frequency of the attached capacitor).

Thanks for these details. From my experience with this "varitone" switch, I had assumed it was equivalent to the fully rolled-off tone for each capacitor, but have been unable to verify that for sure (although it makes total sense given how it is designed). So I appreciate your confirmation.

I suppose this type of control is the complete opposite of those who say they never touch their tone control, or that say they completely remove it. There are also those who aren't big on resonant "bump" or what have you that you get when the tone is completely rolled off, so they never quite turn their tone down all the way. I'm in the camp who really enjoys soloing the bridge pickup on a two pickup bass, and rolling the tone all the way off and getting that change in tone - but I know it's not for everyone.

The Stellartone website does show a performance chart comparing it's settings vs. the relative settings on a traditional tone pot. Where the peak frequencies end up is quite different. I'm assuming this is due partially to the fact that it is equivalent to the fully rolled off tone for each capacitor value. It does offer a complete bypass at setting 10, which I would find to be useful. Still, without a having a depth control with it, I wouldn't be interested in installing one.

The varitone on my current bass that launched this post in the first place (Birdsong Cortobass), doesn't have an obvious bypass setting as one of its six positions, which I find disappointing. I could be wrong though because I have never had one of these basses before, it has flats on it, and most importantly, it has an unusual pickup combination of a Lace Sensor at the neck, and some kind of Select by EMG humbuckerish? pickup in the bridge position. So I really have no idea what the clean tone of this bass should sound like.

 

[Sub41]

27093543[/URL], member: 40088"]In my experience and for my tastes, the capacitor switch (decade switch) is most useful. The circuits with an inductor (varitone, Q-filter, etc) are interesting, but the added weight to me was not worth the trouble. Those may work better with thick pickups, like series humbuckers.

But what really increases the usefulness of a decade/capacitor switch is wiring the pickup(s) in parallel, if possible. This makes the bass brighter, and then you tune it with the loading capacitor.

Any added weight with the Tonestyler would be minimal if at all. It’s a very compact unit. You could cut some negligible weight by trimming the wiring but there was plenty of room so I kept it. This is when I was wiring it up before install. That’s a stacked pot for master volume and depth control, a blend, the Tonestyler, and a jack.

 

[sunbeast]

Thanks for these details. From my experience with this "varitone" switch, I had assumed it was equivalent to the fully rolled-off tone for each capacitor, but have been unable to verify that for sure (although it makes total sense given how it is designed). So I appreciate your confirmation.

I suppose this type of control is the complete opposite of those who say they never touch their tone control, or that say they completely remove it. There are also those who aren't big on resonant "bump" or what have you that you get when the tone is completely rolled off, so they never quite turn their tone down all the way. I'm in the camp who really enjoys soloing the bridge pickup on a two pickup bass, and rolling the tone all the way off and getting that change in tone - but I know it's not for everyone.

The Stellartone website does show a performance chart comparing it's settings vs. the relative settings on a traditional tone pot. Where the peak frequencies end up is quite different. I'm assuming this is due partially to the fact that it is equivalent to the fully rolled off tone for each capacitor value. It does offer a complete bypass at setting 10, which I would find to be useful. Still, without a having a depth control with it, I wouldn't be interested in installing one.

The varitone on my current bass that launched this post in the first place (Birdsong Cortobass), doesn't have an obvious bypass setting as one of its six positions, which I find disappointing. I could be wrong though because I have never had one of these basses before, it has flats on it, and most importantly, it has an unusual pickup combination of a Lace Sensor at the neck, and some kind of Select by EMG humbuckerish? pickup in the bridge position. So I really have no idea what the clean tone of this bass should sound like.

Unless the Birdsong varitone is somehow encased it would be pretty easy to turn one of the positions into a “tone bypass” position by either temporarily lifting one of the capacitor legs for testing or permanently removing one of the capacitors if you like that tone. You could also wire in a switch to bypass the entire varitone very easily (maybe a push-pull pot for the volume control if you don’t want to drill a new hole)