Venting: Potential big gig ends up being a freebie

[Eminor3rd]

Generally speaking, if you are one the people on this board who are always chanting "I ain't playing for free," "crappy local bands are ruining it for all of us," or "<insert analogy about buying grocery items to make your music performances seem equivalent to essential staples like food>," then next time you feel outraged at an offer to play that is "beneath you," you should take a good, long look in the mirror and ask yourself if the presence of your music (specifically YOURS) is going to generate more dollars for the establishment making the offer. If the answer is "no," then you should re-think your outrage.

It's ridiculous to expect to be paid if you aren't making anyone any money.

 

[Cliff Colton]

I expect to get paid whether they make money or not. I work, I get paid.

 

[FirewalZ]

Generally speaking, if you are one the people on this board who are always chanting "I ain't playing for free," "crappy local bands are ruining it for all of us," or "<insert analogy about buying grocery items to make your music performances seem equivalent to essential staples like food>," then next time you feel outraged at an offer to play that is "beneath you," you should take a good, long look in the mirror and ask yourself if the presence of your music (specifically YOURS) is going to generate more dollars for the establishment making the offer. If the answer is "no," then you should re-think your outrage.

It's ridiculous to expect to be paid if you aren't making anyone any money.

I get that perspective, especially for original group, or where your group is the specific attraction. But what about a venue hiring someone to entertain their patrons? What about a wedding reception for example, would you play a wedding reception than accept zero payment because you didn't "generate more dollars"? In this specific case, there is no expectation that my group would be bringing in extra people to a campground, the expectation was “entertainment” for the venues campers. A service that they wanted us to provide at no cost(money).

 

[JimmyM]

Generally speaking, if you are one the people on this board who are always chanting "I ain't playing for free," "crappy local bands are ruining it for all of us," or "<insert analogy about buying grocery items to make your music performances seem equivalent to essential staples like food>," then next time you feel outraged at an offer to play that is "beneath you," you should take a good, long look in the mirror and ask yourself if the presence of your music (specifically YOURS) is going to generate more dollars for the establishment making the offer. If the answer is "no," then you should re-think your outrage.

It's ridiculous to expect to be paid if you aren't making anyone any money.

I don't agree with that at all. The wedding reception example FirewalZ brought up is a perfect example of why I don't buy into that. If someone approaches me for a gig under any circumstances and tries to use the idea that "you shouldn't get paid because you're not generating me any income," then why do they want a band in the first place? Surely it's a useless thing they can do without.

 

[Eminor3rd]

I don't agree with that at all. The wedding reception example FirewalZ brought up is a perfect example of why I don't buy into that. If someone approaches me for a gig under any circumstances and tries to use the idea that "you shouldn't get paid because you're not generating me any income," then why do they want a band in the first place? Surely it's a useless thing they can do without.

Yes, I was making a generalization that was meant to be relevant to the OP. There are exceptions. A wedding, while not a revenue generating exercise, is generally planned such that music is an important part of the ceremonies, and so you need to pay a professional if you want to be sure it goes as planned.

A race, is not like that. It's a race. And, as is relevant to must of us here, a bar is still pretty much just a bar with or without us playing there. People still show up.

I just don't understand where the outrage comes from. A person is putting on an event that doesn't have anything to do with music. Person gets the idea that music might improve it, but isn't willing to pay because it really doesn't matter all that much to the particular event. Asks if OP is willing to play. OP does not like the terms of the opportunity, but feels the need to vent as if something is taken from him somehow.

 

[FirewalZ]

Yes, I was making a generalization that was meant to be relevant to the OP. There are exceptions. A wedding, while not a revenue generating exercise, is generally planned such that music is an important part of the ceremonies, and so you need to pay a professional if you want to be sure it goes as planned.

A race, is not like that. It's a race. And, as is relevant to must of us here, a bar is still pretty much just a bar with or without us playing there. People still show up.

I just don't understand where the outrage comes from. A person is putting on an event that doesn't have anything to do with music. Person gets the idea that music might improve it, but isn't willing to pay because it really doesn't matter all that much to the particular event. Asks if OP is willing to play. OP does not like the terms of the opportunity, but feels the need to vent as if something is taken from him somehow.

Sorry, but i still don't get the logic...whether or not "it matters" to the venue is irrelevant, I provide a service in exchange for monetary compensation..period. What if they decided to put in a pool....they don't really need to, it may not attract any additional patrons...so does that justify asking contractors to dig a pool at no cost? You have mischaracterized my post, "nothing was taken from me". This is a huge venue making squillions...and my point was they dont seem to blink an eye to ask a musician/band to perform for free....and not other professionals, contactors and service providers. Im way over it now....but was sort of offended that they thought so little of our profession and the high cost and work that goes into it....as to ask for it for free.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Sorry, but i still don't get the logic...whether or not "it matters" to the venue is irrelevant, I provide a service in exchange for monetary compensation..period. What if they decided to put in a pool....they don't really need to, it may not attract any additional patrons...so does that justify asking contractors to dig a pool at no cost? You have mischaracterized my post, "nothing was taken from me". This is a huge venue making squillions...and my point was they dont seem to blink an eye to ask a musician/band to perform for free....and not other professionals, contactors and service providers. Im way over it now....but was sort of offended that they thought so little of our profession and the high cost and work that goes into it....as to ask for it for free.

Please know that I was not referring to you in my reply, I was referring to the OP.

 

[FirewalZ]

Please know that I was not referring to you in my reply, I was referring to the OP.

Thats me

 

[Eminor3rd]

Thats me

Oh, whoops.

Well.

I don't know man, that's how the post came off to me. Just seems like you didn't like the offer, which is fine and fair, but not something that requires any sort of angry response. If they needed a pro musician, they'd have to pay or be disappointed. But they don't -- it's a race. So they'll get an amateur and everything will be fine. Or no one will agree to play and it'll still be fine. They can get a DJ or an iPod, too.

But an iPod can't put in a swimming pool.

I just think we all need to keep in mind that no one owes us money simply because we're trying to get money. And it isn't personal and it isn't about how good you are at anything -- it's about whether or not what you're doing is something people want or need to pay for.

To be honest, I was really more riled up at some of the replies here than at your post. I get worked up when people suggest that amateur musicians shouldn't be allowed to play because they're "ruining it for the real musicians." You didn't say that, but others did, and these posts always end up attracting those responses.

 

[edro]

I get worked up when people suggest that amateur musicians shouldn't be allowed to play because they're "ruining it for the real musicians." You didn't say that, but others did, and these posts always end up attracting those responses.

I must have missed that part....

 

[gumtown]

So how many people are we talking about at this venue, I would imagine about 10~40,000 through the gate?
For a band to put on a show that evening, you might have about 3~12,000 over night campers maybe?
And the band is expected to supply all the production equipment, stage/riser, marque/shelter, at least a 40,000 watt PA, production crew, lighting and video, electricians and riggers ?
and all this for free (at the cost of the band)?

or is it just a party on the patio with a small vocal PA and carry on combo amps, with a table lamp with a red bulb?

It depends on what is involved.

 

[FirewalZ]

So how many people are we talking about at this venue, I would imagine about 10~40,000 through the gate?
For a band to put on a show that evening, you might have about 3~12,000 over night campers maybe?
And the band is expected to supply all the production equipment, stage/riser, marque/shelter, at least a 40,000 watt PA, production crew, lighting and video, electricians and riggers ?
and all this for free (at the cost of the band)?

or is it just a party on the patio with a small vocal PA and carry on combo amps, with a table lamp with a red bulb?

It depends on what is involved.

The former....We are pro's...local boys...but pro's with a PA to spare for a large outdoor show.

 

[FirewalZ]

Oh, whoops.

Well.

I don't know man, that's how the post came off to me. Just seems like you didn't like the offer, which is fine and fair, but not something that requires any sort of angry response. If they needed a pro musician, they'd have to pay or be disappointed. But they don't -- it's a race. So they'll get an amateur and everything will be fine. Or no one will agree to play and it'll still be fine. They can get a DJ or an iPod, too.

But an iPod can't put in a swimming pool.

I just think we all need to keep in mind that no one owes us money simply because we're trying to get money. And it isn't personal and it isn't about how good you are at anything -- it's about whether or not what you're doing is something people want or need to pay for.

To be honest, I was really more riled up at some of the replies here than at your post. I get worked up when people suggest that amateur musicians shouldn't be allowed to play because they're "ruining it for the real musicians." You didn't say that, but others did, and these posts always end up attracting those responses.

No worries....I do understand and can agree somewhat with that perspective, i just didn't think it was applicable to my OP.

 

[Eminor3rd]

No worries....I do understand and can agree somewhat with that perspective, i just didn't think it was applicable to my OP.

Fair.

 

[gln1955]

They may have heard that performers for the Super Bowl halftime show don't get paid.

 

[hbarcat]

I just think we all need to keep in mind that no one owes us money simply because we're trying to get money. And it isn't personal and it isn't about how good you are at anything -- it's about whether or not what you're doing is something people want or need to pay for.

Actually, it is about how good you are because experienced and talented musicians are in demand. That's why they get paid for their services while the multitudes of hack bands play for free.

To be honest, I was really more riled up at some of the replies here than at your post. I get worked up when people suggest that amateur musicians shouldn't be allowed to play because they're "ruining it for the real musicians." You didn't say that, but others did, and these posts always end up attracting those responses.

I agree. It doesn't affect me when lesser bands play for nothing. Playing music is just like any other skilled trade or service. If you're good at your job, then you will develop and maintain a positive reputation. Over time, repeat and referral customers become your bread and butter.