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Versatile Cabinet for Multiple Preamps

ghunter

ghunter

May 16, 2006
343
281
Bellingham, WA
#1
Over the years I have accumulated a number of great preamps from Trace Elliot, SWR, Eden, EBS, and the new SansAmp VT Bass DI. I'm looking for a cabinet that will be versatile enough to show the character of these different preamps. Budget is around $1,000 but is flexible within reason. Power amp will be a Crest, Crown, or Stewart with at least 500W into 8 ohms bridged.

My playing is mostly project based these days, one month I might be working on something that needs classic rock/metal tones with the VT Bass DI or Trace Elliot and the next month might be heavily effects-driven through the EBS or SWR. About the only styles I never venture into are jazz and funk, slapping and popping is just not me so I don't need a cab with lots of high end for that type of playing.

Note that gigging and portability is not the goal here - this rig will be used for recording, jamming/practicing, and other small to medium sized room situations. I'm looking for a mid-sized cabinet that can sound good and deep across the whole range at low volumes but still have the ability to get loud when needed (sometimes this rig will compete with a Marshall half stack)

Tonal versatility is the most important factor, though. I have some older SWR and Trace cabs that have very distinctive sonic characteristics no matter what heads are plugged into them (the SWR "honk" is pretty front and center), I want cabs that are more neutral than those.

Cabs that are currently on my shortlist:

Bergantino NV115
Bergantino HD210
Schroeder 1210PL
Schroeder 1010PL

Any comments on these? Any others I should add to my list?
 
#4
The HD210 is a reasonably flat, transparent cab. The NV115 is a sealed cab with mid driver rather than tweeter, and by its design (old school!) will color your sound to a certain extent. If you like the punchy sealed cab design, then the NV will work. Because you own so many preamps and are looking for consistency, then transparency (HD) is probably the way to go. The coloration of the NV might sound fantastic with some preamps, but possibly not so much with others.

You also want to keep up with a Marshall half-stack. In that case, the HD is the way to go because it's much more efficient than the NV.

You mentioned portability, so I will suggest the CN212 cab: louder and lighter than the HD210 (though bulkier and spendier).

I haven't used those particular Schroeder cabs, they might be nice, but Jim Bergantino is a bona fide audio engineer and his products have been consistently excellent for many years.
 
#5
Thank you for your responses!

I have been wondering about 210 vs 410, and if having the additional power handling and cone surface area of a 410 might give me a fuller sound and also the potential to play at higher volumes when needed. However, I am also concerned that the 410 might not be so good at lower volumes and it could only "come alive" after being pushed to a higher level.

I have been DI'ing these preamps for a while now but I want to move to mic'ing this cab. This is one of the reasons a multiple driver design appeals to me, as I can mic it up in many different places.

When I demo'ed the HD210 and NV115 this week at Bass NW I found the HD210 to be far more transparent, exactly as you describe Fuzzbass. I owned a HT112/EX112 combo for around ten years and was very happy, but I also found that those cabs didn't like every head that I plugged into them, but I understand that the HD series is different in its execution and should be more versatile.

So given that great feedback, I'm going to adjust my shortlist to:

Bergantino HD210
Bergantino HD410
Bergantino CN212
Schroeder 1210PL
Schroeder 1010PL
 
#8
I really like the HD210, but it lacks the round low end WHUMP that I'd like to get. I'll try it tomorrow with a different power amp (7ooW bridged at 8 ohms) to see if pushing it a little harder makes a difference, but so far it's excellent but not in all the ways I wanted.
 
#9
ghunter said:
Over the years I have accumulated a number of great preamps from Trace Elliot, SWR, Eden, EBS, and the new SansAmp VT Bass DI. I'm looking for a cabinet that will be versatile enough to show the character of these different preamps...

Note that gigging and portability is not the goal here - this rig will be used for recording, jamming/practicing, and other small to medium sized room situations. I'm looking for a mid-sized cabinet that can sound good and deep across the whole range at low volumes but still have the ability to get loud when needed...

Tonal versatility is the most important factor, though... I want cabs that are... neutral...

Any comments on these? Any others I should add to my list?
Click to expand...

Very interesting set of requirements! Over in the high-end home audio and studio monitor worlds, a neutral speaker system is desirable (and prized) for, among other things, its ability to reveal subtle changes in the signal chain. Your interest in a cab that lets the character of your different preamps shine through would probably be well served by a neutral bass cab (which is almost, but not quite, an oxymoron... the goal posts for bass guitar cabs are typically in a different place).

Also, a cab that starts out as a neutral palette is arguably more versatile when it comes to painting your own tonal colors via EQ or effects or whatever, as you don't have to EQ out its baked-in tone before you can begin to create yours.

Imo there's a lot that goes into making a "neutral" loudspeaker system regardless of its intended use, and some of it is not obvious at first glance. The crossover, which you never even see unless you open up the cabinet, may be the most important part of a speaker system whose goals include neutrality - but most bass cabs use a minimalist crossover to save money and weight. Using drivers whose radiation patterns match up well in the crossover region is a technique used in high-end home and studio applications (as well as high-end PA systems), but is seldom seen in bass cabs. Some parts of the spectrum are especially unforgiving of glitches, so special attention needs to be paid to these areas.

Anyway your idea of a revealing, versatile, neutral studio bass cab is a very interesting one.
 
#11
M0ses said:
I'm curious. Could you elucidate to me your preference for micing the cab? It strikes me as contradictory to your goals.
Click to expand...

Why would mic'ing the cab be contradictory? The versatility of the cabinet would not be just in its tone, but in its application for either group composition or recording. This would be a fairly common requirement in any professional studio who wants a cabinet that can replicate a wide range of tones based on minimal yet heterogeneous gear brought in by the visiting musicians.

Please elaborate on this, and I'm sure I can explain what I'm looking for in terms of mic'ing.
 
#12
If you want a studio monitor-like bass cab, the gold standard is one of Duke's (Audiokinesis) TC cabs. These have a woofer and horn, so the question above about micing is really, "how do you intend to mic a multi-way cab?" Plus if the cab doesn't provide any filtering what's the point of feeding the signal through another clean stage? Just DI it and roll off highs or lows at the board as needed.

If you want a basic rock tone (tight bass, rolled off highs, slight low mid bump and a bit of cone character) micable studio cab, the little Ampeg SVT 210 seems to fit that bill pretty well. Sealed 8x10 tone in a manageable package. Use a pair or 3 for the loud stuff.
 
#15
Surely I can't be the only one that believes that direct + EQ provides the same results as mic'ing a cabinet, no matter how neutral that cabinet would be. For twenty years I have been mixing bass with a combination of direct and mic'ed and the whole has always been greater than the sum of the parts. The choice of mic, the choice of speaker where you mic, and the choice of mic position has a large impact on the sound in the final product.

I am taking a good look at Duke's Audiokinesis cabinets, I have to admit that I never heard of them but the more I learn the more I like the concepts behind them.

I'll also be taking a closer look at the Ampeg 2x10, that seems to be a very popular choice here for good reason.

The Bergantino HD210 is an excellent cabinet indeed and has really surprised me how much the tone has changed from the HT days. If it had a little more low end I'd be really really happy with that cab. I heard the IP cabs at Bass NW years ago and was blown away, I agree that they would be a great choice!

What active Bag End cabs are people using? I didn't see any active cabs listed in their bass product listings.
 
#19
Close mic'ing a multdriver cab becomes about the mic placement. Finding the spot where you get that which satify's your ear...Personally I prefer micing a 1 way cab (with 1 15 being my preference - yeah, old school...) and blending that with a DI'ed signal. If you are willing to log the time required, then micing a 2 way cab is doable. I played with my Senn 421 on fEarful 12.6. Got ok results. Could have gotten better if I had wanted to spend the time... You get to a point where centimeter moves are the discriminating factor. Way too fussy for me... I really prefer the colored sound I get from my 15 and DI anyway. yMMv and all that...

If you want round and full, defined and full range - fEarful... There I said it... The family is voiced the same so 12.6 or 15.6 doesn't really matter except in terms of the absolute volume you need to produce and the size of the cab you need to live with... It is not studio monitor clear but it is pretty darned close... Those cabs take Eq really well.

Last thing I'll mention ... Bridging ? For a recording setup ? Really ? Before you commit to that as an approach, do an AB with the 500 into 8 bridged and something that is 500 a side into 8... Bridged amps generally lose audio quality IME. It is a way to get power on the cheap. Duly noted. There is a cost however and it is generally the side effect of sound degradation... If it doesn't need to move often, there is a metric ton of old heavy industrial power out there on the cheap that still sounds great.

And then...

Duke's cabs are nothing short of amazing. I've been up close and personal with a couple of them and I'm super impressed. Guys at the SeaTac GTG were basically drooling on his new x4 designed cabs (Hathor?). While I am no fan of 18's in a bass rig, from what I hear, you wouldn't know by listening... Crossover magic at play.

Local bud Passinwind's Thunderchild AC (AE ?) is a stellar sounding cab and he came back from that GTG thinking about a 2x4" top box and x-over for his nEarful subs setup... Passinwind, being the mad scientist and all is not easily impressed...
 

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