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Vertical cab stacking---the only way to play

#123
failuresXbass said:
i guess this explains why, to me, my swr 8x8 sounds better on stage that my trace 4x10.
at stage volumes, the 8x8 has always been so much more audible for me.
Click to expand...

IMO and IME, you are hearing the very strong mid response of the 8x8 versus the more open, wide, deep and slightly scooped response of the 410.

The vertical stacks that the guys above are talking about involve having no speakers side by side (i.e., a 210 stack, a 215 stack or a 212 stack).

However, your point is similar to the point I've been making. There is SO much that goes into projecting an even tone across the stage and room. My guess is, the 'vertical stacking' to eliminate 'comb filtering' explains about 10% of the variance in the change in tone around the room.
 
#124
It's definitely not a major change in comb filtering effect. In the grand scheme of things it probably matters zip. But it's noticeable. Just staciking cabs off axis is noticeable to me, and that's a 2-inch difference.
 
#125
billfitzmaurice said:
My system wasn't exactly huge, but it was hung where the room permitted it. I can't remember if the first place I hung my PA was the Ramada in Columbus or the Marriott in Milwaukee or whichever of the hundred odd rooms I played when I was on the road, but the year was 1973, so I beat Sir Paul by 3 years. The main reason why touring systems weren't hung then was the same as why most bar bands didn't hang theirs: set-up time. In those days a pro-tour crew might have been six to eight guys. My road crew was me. :smug:
Click to expand...

You were ahead of your time! And yes, in this day and age of huge crews, big acts build a complete stage, sound, and lighting system each night in every arena they play.
 
#126
I ran my rig this way in practice last night, with the angled driver pointed down, and the regular driver at the top.

I do dig the higher driver (a 12) being up closer to my ears (this is why I always used to raise my old 4x10 on a chair or stool when on stage).

I also DID pull out a bit of 'honk' from my sound (yes probably due to the new speaker orientation)...but did note that there was a minimal amount of 'clarifying' effect to the setup. Now, I would guess in a big room and on a stage this may be more than the 'barely noticeable' effect last night. I've got a few shows coming up that I'll have to try it with.
 
#127
Is that the vertical approach works fantastically well if implemented correctly. For almost a year (before I went to using in-ears) I stacked two Wizzy's on top of each other - with the top Wizzy angled up with the built-in angle stand. This resulted in excellent stage monitoring for both me and the band, and I mic'd the lower Wizzy for the PA sound. Obviously mic'ing a 2 or 3 way cab becomes difficult in a live situation if you don't have numerous empty PA channels for different mic's, so I was fortunate in that the Wizzy's design allowed for me to get my mic'd sound into the PA fairly easily (different topic, sorry).

Anyway, I am a big believer in vertical stacking of drivers - especially if you can get decent overall cab projection at your head level by angling or elevation.

Having said all that, once I went to in-ears, I defaulted back to a one-cab solution for my own convenience. Although it sits on a pair of Gramma pads, it still is not elevated (in projection angle) as much as the Wizzy's were previously - oh well.

Good thread, however, and very valid points all around.

Jay
 
#129
Nobody ever does until they know what to listen for. Comb filtering is probably a dead issue to the crowd because they hear the cab from one place and the waves already developed from one point (someone spot me on that), and it's really not a huge deal onstage because I presume most of the time you'll be standing in front of your speakers, but get off to the side and realize that you're blasting everyone else when you can't hear it and you'll know too well the effects of comb filtering ;)
 
#133
It's a holdover from two-speaker guitar combos originally. They were built that way because of logistics, and it looked cool, so everyone started doing it. And then the idea was to have massive horizontal PA stacks, which reinforced the horizontal emthod even more, and that's when people started to lay SVT's and 2-15"s on their sides. Fortunately, now we know that nobody knew any better and there's no excuse for us not to do it right.
 
#134
(JimmyM - thanks for responding to my original post... see below)

When did the practice of setting 2+ speaker cabinets horizontal begin? I've been out of the music from '85 to '99 but from '69 to '85 I was gigging regularly and between myself, my band mates, and other bands we partnered with, cabs were always placed vertically. We used Sunn, Fender, Peavey and Acoustic Control cabinets with 12s and 15s that were badged to be vertical. Even my beloved 6x10 Silvertone went on it's side. Outside of guitar combos with 2 or 4 speakers configurations, everything was vertical, even the Shure and Peavey PA columns.
 
#135
Here's a kind of small pic of my CX-310 on a gig:

EA_Rig.jpg

It is a vertically stacked 3x10 and I have it sitting on top of a milk crate.
The middle driver is a co-ax with the HF driver in it.
If you click it you'll get a little bigger shot, but not much more.
 
#136
WOW! I never saw that cab before...that looks like the ultimate 10" cab. I can also see why they discontinued it because a lot of people can't move a cab that long, but I'll bet it sounds awesome.
 
#137
JimmyM said:
WOW! I never saw that cab before...that looks like the ultimate 10" cab. I can also see why they discontinued it because a lot of people can't move a cab that long, but I'll bet it sounds awesome.
Click to expand...

It's 36"x17.5"x18" and 110 lb with a Transmission Line enclosure (I call it the Monolith).
It fits in the back seat of my 2002 Accord sedan.
The top and bottom woofer have butyl rubber surrounds like a hi-fi subwoofer; the middle driver has a conventional surround.

It has a very tight & deep bass response, but it sounds great running any type signal through it (keyboard, drums, iPod, whatever).

Here's a couple of other pix and reviews by TomBowlus and Boogiebass:
Click here.
 

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