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Vertical cab stacking---the only way to play

#141
Jimmy, also as far as I know, elimination of comb filtering with vertical stacking only occurs when the drivers/cabinets are reproducing the same frequencies.

So you could have a low-pass subwoofer. with either an active or passive crossover, sitting side-by-side with a high-pass top cabinet, without causing comb filtering.

However, having the high-pass cabinet sitting up on top of the subwoofer would still be advantageous in other respects.
 
#143
At the risk of once again revealing just how shallow I am, I admit that stacks make me feel self-conscientious. When I was a young buck I didn't feel that way. But now a big stack would make me feel a bit foolish. Don’t get me wrong, when, and if, the occasion arises that requires me to use more than one cabinet, I will certainly opt for what sounds best but to me this looks better than a big tall stack of speakers.

http://www.the-jime.dk/Rockabilly_Guitar/Fender_Showman_1968_sm.jpg

Yea I know its not about looks.
 
#146
I admit I haven't read all 8 pages very closely, so this may already have been mentioned, but... Isn't the only way to "stack" something, well,... vertically? I mean, it would be really tricky to stack something horizontally. ;)

Redundancy of terms aside, I totally agree with Jimmy. It just makes sense to get some drivers up closer to where your ears can actually have a chance. Unless you stand 50 feet from your cab. Which is unlikely. If you are 50 feet from the cab, you're probably going wireless and aren't all that finicky about tone anyway...:hiding:
 
#147
scotch said:
I admit I haven't read all 8 pages very closely, so this may already have been mentioned, but... Isn't the only way to "stack" something, well,... vertically? I mean, it would be really tricky to stack something horizontally. ;)
Click to expand...
LOL...you can take a speaker like a 2-10" and stack it to where the drivers sit horizontally, you know?
 
#149
I've noticed an uneveness in my sound in my diagonal 212 when moving around on stage. I just didn't know it was comb filtering. After reading the explaination on BFM's forum I have a good idea of what's going on now.

In a vertical 212 for example, how come you don't get comb filtering then? When standing eight feet away the drivers are still at different lengths away from my ears.
 
#150
Blues Cat said:
I've noticed an uneveness in my sound in my diagonal 212 when moving around on stage. I just didn't know it was comb filtering. After reading the explaination on BFM's forum I have a good idea of what's going on now.

In a vertical 212 for example, how come you don't get comb filtering then? When standing eight feet away the drivers are still at different lengths away from my ears.
Click to expand...

In that case, the comb filtering occurs in the vertical direction. Since you aren't moving up and down, you aren't experiencing it.
 
#151
Blues Cat said:
I've noticed an uneveness in my sound in my diagonal 212 when moving around on stage. I just didn't know it was comb filtering. After reading the explaination on BFM's forum I have a good idea of what's going on now.

In a vertical 212 for example, how come you don't get comb filtering then? When standing eight feet away the drivers are still at different lengths away from my ears.
Click to expand...
There's no comb filtering going on there!
 
#153
Kindness said:
In that case, the comb filtering occurs in the vertical direction. Since you aren't moving up and down, you aren't experiencing it.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying, I'm not bobbing up and down 8' from the cab.

But if you walk from 4' to say 15' you're changing the length.
 
#154
Blues Cat said:
I see what you're saying, I'm not bobbing up and down 8' from the cab.

But if you walk from 4' to say 15' you're changing the length.
Click to expand...

+1 If you're on a small stage (where you might be only 1' to 4' away from your cabs) the comb filtering is worse for you with a vertical array, because of the large difference in the distance between your ears and the top woofer vs your ears and the bottom woofer. So I guess all the folks that say their vertical stacks sound better to them on stage due to the reduction in comb filtering must not stand very close to them... or the improvement is not related to comb filtering :hiding:

Personally I think the comb filtering thing is a non issue with musical instrument cabs, but I'm sure it will be beaten to death here for many years to come. :p ;)
 
#155
I actually use two Ampeg Classic 210 speakers (with an Eden WT400), which seems to be an unpopular choice.

To me, my biggest complaint playing live was not being able to hear myself - when I used a 410. I found the Ampeg 410 HLF to be very boomy. The 210s are punchy and have nice lows and the low mids to be much more defined. With the tweeters off, I can still get that nice warm vintage punch and still be able to decifer the low notes. I dislike how large cabinets make boomy sounds in most rooms. For the most part I have been able to dial in the amount of bass need for each room - BUT - if your cab is big and boomy to begin with, its hard to dial it out and keep definition IMHO. Plus the 210s stached is higher to my ear than a 410. Works for me.
 
#156
el_Kabong said:
+1 If you're on a small stage (where you might be only 1' to 4' away from your cabs) the comb filtering is worse for you with a vertical array, because of the large difference in the distance between your ears and the top woofer vs your ears and the bottom woofer. So I guess all the folks that say their vertical stacks sound better to them on stage due to the reduction in comb filtering must not stand very close to them... or the improvement is not related to comb filtering :hiding:

Personally I think the comb filtering thing is a non issue with musical instrument cabs, but I'm sure it will be beaten to death here for many years to come. :p ;)
Click to expand...
As well it should.

BTW, the reason you don't hear the bottom cab when you're standing close to it is because it takes a good 8-10 ft for bass waves to even develop fully. It has zip to do with comb filtering.

Good post, bro. I don't think any of us should worry about what we sound like, either.
 
#157
JimmyM said:
BTW, the reason you don't hear the bottom cab when you're standing close to it is because it takes a good 8-10 ft for bass waves to even develop fully. It has zip to do with comb filtering.
Click to expand...

But you do hear the top cab?? I don't know about that Jimmy. And comb filtering is ALL about mutiple sound sources at different distances from the listener.

I've heard people say before that they think it takes a certain distance for bass waves to 'develop fully' but they never seem to get around to saying what exactly that means. Or by what mechanism the 'development' occurs. If you'd like to take a shot I don't mind watching the tech heads strip the flesh from your bones. ;)

Hope they don't come after me first!:D
 
#158
whitespike said:
I actually use two Ampeg Classic 210 speakers (with an Eden WT400), which seems to be an unpopular choice.

To me, my biggest complaint playing live was not being able to hear myself - when I used a 410. I found the Ampeg 410 HLF to be very boomy. The 210s are punchy and have nice lows and the low mids to be much more defined. With the tweeters off, I can still get that nice warm vintage punch and still be able to decifer the low notes. I dislike how large cabinets make boomy sounds in most rooms. For the most part I have been able to dial in the amount of bass need for each room - BUT - if your cab is big and boomy to begin with, its hard to dial it out and keep definition IMHO. Plus the 210s stached is higher to my ear than a 410. Works for me.
Click to expand...
I always found the 410hlf to respond well to being put on a crate, which gets it closer to ear level too. As you say, they can be very boomy on the floor.
 
#159
I have a problem with vertical stacking.

I know how comb filtering and power alleys come about. And i do know that vertical stacking eliminates most of these things. However, having all your power emanating from what is essentially a point source puts out huge amounts of power at that location.

From what i remember from physics and math, the power levels drop 4 times as the distance doubles (from a point source). What this means is also that as the distance is halved, power increases 4 times. What is perfect for a guy in the crowd 50 ft away sounds nearly 3 times as loud for someone at the front of the stage, 12 ft from the rig, with 16 times the sound energy.

That certainly can't be good. Vertical stacking might work in some situations, it certainly isn't the be-all-end-all.
 

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