Very stupid basic questions

[Bongolation]

so the wattages don't have a direct influence over the volume?

Yes, they do, but only through the same control cab.

A more or less neutral-EQed 500W head into cab X will be louder than a more or less neutral-EQed 250W head into the same cabinet.

Speaker efficiency is more important for volume than watts. Some drivers are more than twice as loud as others given the same input.

There must be a FAQ or sticky here about this.

 

[EricF]

You've obviously never done customer support or taught middle school.

HA!!!

 

[Jim Carr]

Toshiro, Toshiro, Toshiro--I'd take a different approach. Ask something like this:

"I need a new amp and I have $XXX to spend, give or take $YYY. I play in a ZZZ band and we do/don't play pretty loud. What do you all recommend? BTW, I have an ABC combo, and I this it is XYZ!"

See what this does? It takes advantage of direct experience rather than asking for an evaluation of something vague.

I have a whole bunch of stupid basic questions. sorry if these seem idiotic to you, but i've been very confused for the last few weeks.
1. I have a 60 watt peavey combo amp. Can I attach a cabinet to it to make it louder?
2. I know that watts are a measure of power... how many more watts (generally) does it take to double the volume? I've googled this, but all its said was "a double in the amount of watts will only raise the volume by 3 decibels"
3. A 500 watt head can only produce 500 watts of power and volume, correct? so to increase the volume past this point, would you have to attach more heads?

i have a couple more, but can't remember them now...
And btw, I looked under the FAQ, didn't answer these questions. same with google.

 

[EricF]

The bottom line is that there are many factors that go into making a rig louder - watts, number of speakers, sensitivity, etc.

Without getting too deep into the variables and specifics of each, generally speaking...
- More watts are louder - A 300W amp will be louder than a 100W amp connected to the same cab.
- More speakers are louder - Two 410 cabs will be louder than one 410 connected to the same amp.
- Higher sensitivity cab is louder - A higher sensitivity 410 will be louder than a lower sensitivity 410 cab connected to the same amp.

How much volume you need is dependent on your playing situation.

 

[Pilgrim]

There's an issue of what is actually louder vs. what human ears perceive.

If you add more speakers (up to the safe limit of the amp driving them) you will move more air, and the audience will perceive this as being louder. It may not be, but the effect may be what you want. Therefore, adding a cab may help with perceived volume.

As noted above, doubling amp power only increases volume (through the same speakers) by 3dB, which isn't much. It takes 10x the amp to actually double the volume - which is both impractical and unnecessary in most cases.

IF you can safely drive another speaker, the perceived volume from your existing head will be higher by adding that speaker. But through the same speakers, a 200W head will never be louder than a 500W head. And as EricF notes, a more sensitive speaker (perhaps rated 101 dB as compared to a speaker rated 97 dB) will be louder with the same amount of power input. A 200W amp through a pair of very sensitive speakers might be louder than a 500W amp played through a similar pair of much less sensitive speakers...but the speakers make the difference.

In the real world, unless you're playing small venues and/or playing in a very low volume band 60W is not considered to be a "gigging" amp. It's probably more of a practice amp. I use a 120W combo with a single 15" speaker for band practice, although I don't turn it up past 4. For versatility, many players use a separate amp and speaker cabs, as this allows them to mix and match for the event and the setting. The general impression I have from many players is that "gigging" amp power starts about 300W and goes up from there. One thing to remember is that you can always turn down.

 

[ksandvik]

I suspect this kind of question shows up more than once a day on this forum. What I suspect is happening is that someone is an aspiring bass player. Either a sleazy uninformed sales person is selling them a practice amp, or then they don't do proper research or ask questions and purchase one. They take it to a practice (or even gig) and notice that their bass sound is not heard. So they struggle to figure out how to extend the sound cheaply without just re-selling and switching gear...

 

[René_Julien]

So...

If for example I own a nice SVT stack, let's say a vintage 70s holy grail with matching 70s 8x10 cab, which I'm driving to as hard as tonally possible...

and I need more volume, and I add an exact some rig next to it driven exactly the same...

I would only gain 3db?

 

[Munjibunga]

so the wattages don't have a direct influence over the volume?
meaning that, if i have the 500 watt head, and i played it through a 8x10 it would be much louder if played through a 4x10?
And a 200 watt head could get louder than said 500 watt head if played the the proper speakers?

Wattage, or power, does have a direct influence over the volume. A 1,000-watt amp will be a lot louder than a 100-watt amp. You just have to make sure you have a speaker system that can handle the power.

Now, for a given head, say a 200-watt head, it will be louder through a 410 cabinet than it will be through a 210 cabinet. So, generally speaking, more power equals more volume, and more speakers equals more volume.

It is conceivable that a 200-watt head through, say, a 410 would be louder than a 500-watt head through a 210 but, given the choice, I'd want the additional power for headroom, if nothing else. There's a trade-off, because the 210 might not handle all 500 watts of the amp, so you wouldn't get the benefit of all the power available.

As an example, most of the amps I gig are in the 750- to 1,200-watt range. I usually run the amp into one 410 cab rated around 500 to 800 watts. Now, I could blow the speakers in these cabs if I cranked the mother all the way up, but an occasional loud note isn't going to kill me, because cabinets can usually handle transients of about twice the rated power. You have to pay attention to how the speakers sound. If you hear farting, turn it down. And no, there's nothing you can do to get more volume when that happens, except get more speakers. Turn it up beyond that, and you will destroy speakers.

If you're thinking about getting a rig for gigging without PA support, I recommend 300 watts as an absolute minimum, and 500 is mo' better. You may not need all that power all the time, but the extra headroom is valuable.

One of my rigs is an Eden WT-800 (1,100 watts at 4 ohms) and a D-410XLT plus a D-210XLT. With this setup, I can mix and match cabs for either 2, 4 or 6 ten-inch speakers. The WT-800 has plenty of power for any of those combinations, and I use the number of speakers to suit the volume required. Six speakers for outdoors, four for medium venues, and two for intimate venues. Of course, I have to use the volume knob judiciously when playing through just the 210, because the WT can put 880 watts into 8 ohms, and the poor little speaker is rated at only 350 watts.

Finally, remember the phrase, "Buy once, cry once." This means you should buy gear that's a little better than what you can absolutely afford. If you don't you will be dissatisfied, and end up selling the cruddy gear to buy what you really wanted in the first place ... you will "cry twice."

 

[crayzee]

So...

If for example I own a nice SVT stack, let's say a vintage 70s holy grail with matching 70s 8x10 cab, which I'm driving to as hard as tonally possible...

and I need more volume, and I add an exact some rig next to it driven exactly the same...

I would only gain 3db?

Yup. And to gain another 3db, you'd have to have another 2 vintage rigs.

 

[EricF]

So...

If for example I own a nice SVT stack, let's say a vintage 70s holy grail with matching 70s 8x10 cab, which I'm driving to as hard as tonally possible...

and I need more volume, and I add an exact some rig next to it driven exactly the same...

I would only gain 3db?

No. You're also doubling the quantity of speakers.

 

[gregwatts2008]

You can only play so loud before your sound turns to mud. Whatever amp you buy has a manual, read it. A 400w amp with a 4x10 cab will be all you need. If you get to play a stadium, most likely you will have a PA system. More power allows cleaner tone, but it won't work with 32 speakers.

 

[René_Julien]

Yup. And to gain another 3db, you'd have to have another 2 vintage rigs.

Was not sure anymore, school is too long ago.

The trap is that if you are going to talk albout decibels, you should know that it's not a linear scale but logaritmicl. (directed at newbies)

There should be something in the FAQ about what decibels technicly are.


But the best thing to do is not to try to grasp it.
Just play.... and if it fits better between your ears thinking, hey I have 700W, that can be enough. Well for me.
I like to consume decibels, not take the factory tour about how they are made.



edit: made a correction, typed exponential but it should be logaritmic

 

[René_Julien]

No. You're also doubling the quantity of speakers.

So you mean gaining dispersion also?


hmmm....

I'm backing out of this discussion.... contented with the idea that my GK 1001RB-II would always be loud and quiet enough.
As long as I am sensible with the master volume.

 

[EricF]

I like to consume decibels, not take the factory tour about how they are made.

Nice!

 

[toshiro94]

Toshiro, Toshiro, Toshiro--I'd take a different approach. Ask something like this:

"I need a new amp and I have $XXX to spend, give or take $YYY. I play in a ZZZ band and we do/don't play pretty loud. What do you all recommend? BTW, I have an ABC combo, and I this it is XYZ!"

See what this does? It takes advantage of direct experience rather than asking for an evaluation of something vague.

I need a new amp and i have (around) $500 to spend, most likely less, though. I play in a metal/hardcore band and we do play loud. What do you all recommend? I have a peavey 60 what combo.
better?
Oh, and which would (usually) produce more volume? A larger head or more cabinets?
Such as a 400 watt head with a 450 watt cab, vs a 250 watt head with two 4x10s.
EDIT: Oh... So an 4 ohm head played through a 8 ohm cabinet will produce half the wattage of a 4 ohm. Ideally, I'd want either a 4 ohm single cab or two 8 ohm cabs right? Otherwise I wouldn't be getting what I paid for...

 

[Jacob ostema]

well, you hear logarithmically and therefore a 250 watt won't sound twice as loud as a 125 watt. if i did the math right you'd need 15625 watts for it to be twice as loud. which isn't unheard of for metal gigs with 2,000+ people. hope that helps

 

[Bass_Pounder]

well, you hear logarithmically and therefore a 250 watt won't sound twice as loud as a 125 watt. if i did the math right you'd need 15625 watts for it to be twice as loud. which isn't unheard of for metal gigs with 2,000+ people. hope that helps

Zombie thread..............

However, the correct answer is you need 10X the watts (1,000w will be 2X as loud as 100w)

 

[zontar]

There are no stupid questions

There are stupid questions & they come in two varieties.

1-Purposely stupid questions (And I've asked these--on purpose)
2-Questions that show the person asking hasn't been paying attention, especially when they've already been answered more than once--and clarified, just in case (Which are very annoying in a class or work setting)

Sometimes they're both--like in This is Spinal Tap, when Derek asks if they're going to do Stonehenge the next night.

 

[B-string]

I like to think for every "stupid" answer there is a question waiting.