Vintage basses pricing. Seriously?

[selowitch]

I wonder if the MIM basses will someday be valued like MIJs are now, especially if for some reason they halt production at the Ensenada plant. The reason why this may not happen is a) proximity to the Corona facility; and b) the sheer number of MIM basses out there.

 

[bassgirls]

I think I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I dislike vintage gear. It's expensive to buy, but then also expensive to maintain, and you then have to worry about using it and ruining the value. So these aren't really for musicians anymore but collectors, and that's probably why they are being bid up. There is a lot of money sloshing around from all the printing the government did in those QE programs, and that money finds itself into all kinds of things, even vintage basses. If I had one I'd sell it.

Also, I think all the baby boomers dying in the next 10-20 years is bearish for vintage prices. Millennials and GenX can't really afford the prices they want.

I like new instruments, but limited runs. The bass I wound up buying is new but only 500 were made (it's the USA made Magnificent 7 PJ bass). I also bought a '65 avri Fender Jazzmaster where only 50 where made. I'd rather do that and pay a lot less for just as good an instrument then get involved in vintage (money pit I'd be afraid to use and ruin) and since they're limited in quantity maybe they even appreciate. That's just one girl's opinion, though! To each their own.

The only exception to me are vintage amps because they are really hard to break so I wouldn't fear using it, and they truly do sound better. I never played a vintage bass or guitar that sounded or functioned better than a modern one.

 

[ThuzzleFump]

Or is it simply nostalgia of the teenage years that idolizes everything about that era?

Nostalgia.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Go look at vintage Les Paul guitars.

I think $2 million is a perfectly reasonable sum for a guitar.

 

[Watchootognbout]

I miss Jay Boogs...

Here ya go!
Make sure you knock real hard!
Jay Boogs

 

[GretschWretch]

Ha! Up to till the ape descended part, I thought he was talking about earth!!

But if one adopts the position that the ape ascended from man, he might have been.

 

[jongor]

Know what makes them sound better?

Nicotine soaked wood, that’s the magic sauce!

Back then EVERYONE smoked, everywhere, all the time.

Over time these old basses soaked up the smoke/nicotine/whatever giving the wood magic tone properties that we all now crave!

 

[Son of Wobble]

But if one adopts the position that the ape ascended from man, he might have been.

Yes, but the sentence goes on to derail nonetheless in its closing by suggesting that humanoids tend to wear and be entranced by digital watches. Not in my neck of the the floating dust speck they're not.

 

[MordBass]

I think I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I dislike vintage gear. It's expensive to buy, but then also expensive to maintain, and you then have to worry about using it and ruining the value. So these aren't really for musicians anymore but collectors, and that's probably why they are being bid up. There is a lot of money sloshing around from all the printing the government did in those QE programs, and that money finds itself into all kinds of things, even vintage basses. If I had one I'd sell it.

Also, I think all the baby boomers dying in the next 10-20 years is bearish for vintage prices. Millennials and GenX can't really afford the prices they want.

I like new instruments, but limited runs. The bass I wound up buying is new but only 500 were made (it's the Magnificent 7 PJ bass). I also bought a Fender Jazzmaster where only 50 where made. I'd rather do that and pay a lot less for just as good an instrument then get involved in vintage (money pit I'd be afraid to use and ruin) since they're limited in quantity maybe they even appreciate. That's just one girl's opinion, though! To each their own.

The only exception to me are vintage amps because they are really hard to break so I wouldn't fear using it, and they truly do sound better. I never played a vintage bass or guitar that sounded or functioned better than a modern one.

I mostly agree with all of this. I just feel like the term "use" is relative in this context. One could keep their eyes peeled and find a good condition 70's P bass for $1400 and then use it in the privacy of their own home for 20 years and likely get a nice return on it. You dont really ruin the value unless you break it or significantly wear one that was almost mint to begin with. The vintage market is clearly ok with legit wear and you dont have to tour something through wwIII just to get enjoyment and use out of it.
Personally I like the middle ground of gently used but more limited/desirable basses like you were talking about. They always seem to be a good investment. At the end of the day an old instrument gains value because of any combination of desirability, exclusivity, and age.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

But if one adopts the position that the ape ascended from man, he might have been.

Isn't that the wrong way round? I'm sure it was microbe, monkey, ape, man, then me.

 

[bassgirls]

I mostly agree with all of this. I just feel like the term "use" is relative in this context. One could keep their eyes peeled and find a good condition 70's P bass for $1400 and then use it in the privacy of their own home for 20 years and likely get a nice return on it. You dont really ruin the value unless you break it or significantly wear one that was almost mint to begin with. The vintage market is clearly ok with legit wear and you dont have to tour something through wwIII just to get enjoyment and use out of it.
Personally I like the middle ground of gently used but more limited/desirable basses like you were talking about. They always seem to be a good investment. At the end of the day an old instrument gains value because of any combination of desirability, exclusivity, and age.

Yeah if you aren't afraid to use it then try to find a vintage one at a good price and hope for the best. I've played some 60s Jazzmasters and Jaguars and a few old basses in local shops. They were cool, but they didn't really feel much different at all, and the sound wasn't much different. There are subtle differences. Like to me an old Jazzmaster doesn't sound as bright or hot as even the '62 or '65 AVRI models. But you can fix that but simply rolling off the tone pot from 10 down to 8. So I'd rather do that and pay 2k for a fantastic instrument than 6k for a vintage one that I'd be worried to play. The Brazillian rosewood felt a little more like Ebony to my fingers, but again, it wasn't enough to justify the prices since fingerboards are like $35 pieces of wood. I think much of this gets romanticized and people think a Brazilian board is somehow 100x better. It's like 1.5x better feel-wise, so it's a $70 piece of wood or so in reality so there's no reason to pay 8k for it unless you're a collector who wants it for rarity.

I guess my question is why is a 70s p-bass any better than a modern p-bass? Many things were made better back in the day, but I'm not sure instruments were. Some yes and some no. It really depends if Joe Sixpack was hung over when he was hand making it and doing all the soldering. Machines are more consistent in that regard. I really love modern instruments, though. They are consistent and with proper setups play and sound fantastic for great prices. I feel we're spoiled in this modern age of fantastic choices and yet still looking for the holy grail in these vintage instruments when really the holy grail is in our own fingers from hours and hours of practice.

For hipster/coolness factor or bragging rights the vintage wins. But for all practical purposes the way to go is a modern instrument IMO! I hope this doesn't offend anyone it's just my thoughts after playing a lot of stuff and weighing pros and cons.

 

[GretschWretch]

Sadly, I don't like the looks, sound, or playability of the EB-0 ... but for those who do, knock yourselves out!

Give me an EB-OL, an EB-3L, or an EB-4 and its all good.

 

[GretschWretch]

Isn't that the wrong way round? I'm sure it was microbe, monkey, ape, man, then me.

Have to agrre. Your avatar denotes a very aristocratic Pre-Raphaelititism.

 

[Spidey2112]

Here ya go!
Make sure you knock real hard!
Jay Boogs

Bless you, my son... I will sleep good tonight, as an 'L' rumbles through the tracks of my dreams, knowing Jay Boogs is at the helm...

 

[Nohrellas]

"Why does X cost Y"
Supply and demand. The supply is limited and you can't make any more of them and the demand is there and possibly even rising. Prices go up.

 

[MordBass]

Yeah if you aren't afraid to use it then try to find a vintage one at a good price and hope for the best. I've played some 60s Jazzmasters and Jaguars and a few old basses in local shops. They were cool, but they didn't really feel much different at all, and the sound wasn't much different. There are subtle differences. Like to me an old Jazzmaster doesn't sound as bright or hot as even the '62 or '65 AVRI models. But you can fix that but simply rolling off the tone pot from 10 down to 8. So I'd rather do that and pay 2k for a fantastic instrument than 6k for a vintage one that I'd be worried to play. The Brazillian rosewood felt a little more like Ebony to my fingers, but again, it wasn't enough to justify the prices since fingerboards are like $35 pieces of wood. I think much of this gets romanticized and people think a Brazilian board is somehow 100x better. It's like 1.5x better feel-wise, so it's a $70 piece of wood or so in reality so there's no reason to pay 8k for it unless you're a collector who wants it for rarity.

I guess my question is why is a 70s p-bass any better than a modern p-bass? Many things were made better back in the day, but I'm not sure instruments were. Some yes and some no. It really depends if Joe Sixpack was hung over when he was hand making it and doing all the soldering. Machines are more consistent in that regard. I really love modern instruments, though. They are consistent and with setups play and sound fantastic for great prices. I feel we're spoiled in this modern age of fantastic choices and yet still looking for the holy grail in these vintage instruments when really the holy grail is in our own fingers from hours and hours of practice.

For hipster/coolness factor or bragging rights the vintage wins. But for all practical purposes the way to go is a modern instrument IMO! I hope this doesn't offend anyone it's just my thoughts after playing a lot of stuff and weighing pros and cons.

Agreed. I think the issue is that the consistency in the 70s wasnt great with fender but if you find an awesome one... holy crap do they play and sound amazing.

that link, to me is spot on for whats great about a vintage fender. They all sound good in his hands but that 77' has a magic to it that none of the others do. But yea, thats like 1 in every 10 that ive played so I definitely feel ya on that.

A few years ago I wanted a 70's jazz reeeeeally bad so I saved up about $3500. After playing over 25 basses I bought a new Mike Lull V4 because was lighter, cleaner, played better, sounded just as good... and had a truss rod that I trust. It was also almost half the money.

 

[J-Bassomatic]

Yup, another horse is preparing to die.

Again!

 

[Deleted member 165050]

I guess my question is why is a 70s p-bass any better than a modern p-bass? Many things were made better back in the day, but I'm not sure instruments were. Some yes and some no.

You are 100% correct, and in fact the late 70s in particular was a bad period for Fender and Gibson for quality control.

 

[bassgirls]

to me is spot on for whats great about a vintage fender. They all sound good in his hands but that 77' has a magic to it that none of the others do. But yea, thats like 1 in every 10 that ive played so I definitely feel ya on that.

I like the sound of the '77 for sure, but they all sound great, and in the context of a band or mix I don't think you'd notice. So it would just be playing solo. I actually really loved the mellow tones of the '96 and '98. The '77 sounds snappier on all settings and that could be the maple or whatever pickups and pots they used. But I bet you could get something like that from a modern one if you just tried out a bunch. Also, though, if getting a '77 and loving it makes you play more than get one. I think that has to be factored in. Like some instruments just make you want to play more even if it's placebo, and in that case it's worth it b/c you improve so fast. I improved exponentially on my Mag7 PJ bass compared to my MIM P-bass because it was so much easier to play and I liked the tone so much. If the swag of a '77 inspires you that's valid reason for sure!

 

[obimark]

I have been browsing the old Fender's in particular and the prices blow me away. Call me naive, call me ignorant but what makes an instrument that was made in the 60's and the 70's cost anything between $2.000 and more than $8.000? Where the electronics made by superior or advanced components? Where the trees from which the wood came any better than those of today? Did the procedure of building a quality instrument not improve? Or is it simply nostalgia of the teenage years that idolizes everything about that era?

Someone is willing to pay it.

That's it. Simple. Anything is only worth what someone will pay. Now the part you aren't seeing, is most of this stuff priced that high, just sits around on these sites for years. Because nobody is buying it.

Seriously, for all the talk on here about super expensive gear, any bass has severely diminishing utility the higher you go over $900 or so. Is a Fodera times better than my $1100 Lakland? Sure. but not 4-5 times better.