Vintage basses pricing. Seriously?

[selowitch]

I definitely like the sound of the '77 best, all other things being equal.

 

[MordBass]

I like the sound of the '77 for sure, but they all sound great, and in the context of a band or mix I don't think you'd notice. So it would just be playing solo. I actually really loved the mellow tones of the '96 and '98. The '77 sounds snappier on all settings and that could be the maple or whatever pickups and pots they used. But I bet you could get something like that from a modern one if you just tried out a bunch. Also, though, if getting a '77 and loving it makes you play more than get one. I think that has to be factored in. Like some instruments just make you want to play more even if it's placebo, and in that case it's worth it b/c you improve so fast. I improved exponentially on my Mag7 PJ bass compared to my MIM P-bass because it was so much easier to play and I liked the tone so much. If the swag of a '77 inspires you that's valid reason for sure!

Absolutely. I own multiple basses because of how I'll write on each one. Im in a couple projects and it helps my writing to really embrace the mood of whichever bass I pick up that day. Im gonna write something totally different if I grab my thunderbird and a pick vs grabbing my zon. I was always the same with guitars too.
In that sense I think youre spot on with the real value of a vintage instrument. Its the whole package that it has. The sound, look, and feel are all there for that certain mood. Which might be why so many people have liked road worn basses and guitars. It gets you super close to the real thing in all aspects without breaking the bank in many cases

 

[bassgirls]

I play guitar and bass so it's interesting to watch the markets. Here's another example: the 1970s Red Label Yahama Nippo factory acoustic guitars shot up in value because Elliot Smith used one. So that's another factor. It's not just supply and demand, but who uses it. When Clapton and Hendrix used the strat, it put a floor under the price of strats from that era, no matter how many are out there. When 90s alt-rockers rediscovered the jazzmaster and jaguar, it put a floor (and boosted the ceiling) of those, which were considered highly undesirable before that era. Think how Jack White boosted the price of those really bad plastic guitars! So that's part of price, too! Those Yamaha acoustics are mediocre, laminate guitars, yet since Elliot Smith played one they fetch a high price! And most need neck resets no less, which is a fortune on those because I think Yahama was using epoxy on the dovetail! I could be wrong, but I believe they did use expoy. Either way, the inevitable reset is going to cost just as much as the guitar. So I think it is supply and demand, but it's also perception and then which heroes played these instruments, and how much the average player thinks that owning one of those instruments will make them play like their heroes. I think that's a fools game and any player is best off playing tons of hours on the instrument that feels best to them, but to each their own! I just wanted to comment on the supply/demand thing because there is more to it in the psychology department.

 

[12BitSlab]

Read “A Treatise in to the Cause of the Wealth of Nations” published in 1776 by Adam Smith and you will understand.

Wipe on. Wipe off.

 

[Son of Wobble]

I like the sound of the '77 for sure, but they all sound great, and in the context of a band or mix I don't think you'd notice. So it would just be playing solo. I actually really loved the mellow tones of the '96 and '98. The '77 sounds snappier on all settings and that could be the maple or whatever pickups and pots they used. But I bet you could get something like that from a modern one if you just tried out a bunch. Also, though, if getting a '77 and loving it makes you play more than get one. I think that has to be factored in. Like some instruments just make you want to play more even if it's placebo, and in that case it's worth it b/c you improve so fast. I improved exponentially on my Mag7 PJ bass compared to my MIM P-bass because it was so much easier to play and I liked the tone so much. If the swag of a '77 inspires you that's valid reason for sure!

Totally agree that any perceived increase in "tone quality" such as it inspires the player to longer and keener practice is totally justified. It is only when one begins chasing "ultimate tone" that the pursuit becomes questionable. My friend DJ, who ran SWR after Steve Rabe, used to privately scoff at tone chasers! This from the owner of a boutique amp company? But his rhetorical point was valid, as any given tone is simply another "crayon in the box."

 

[Son of Wobble]

@bassgirls Also agree with your point that tone is where you find it, and not necessarily related to era.

Here my cats are seen rocking out on a Frankefender -- GC MIM FSR ash body with stock pickup, and a 2001 MIA
neck of a hot-rod PJ. This guitar is as aggressive as any 70's ash and Maple I've heard, and the two guitars it is built from cost a total of $875. Mind you, for that price I also have a WHOLE other bass guitar.

 

[GretschWretch]

I think it is time we do something which should have been done at the outset of the thread, which is clearly set the scope of the discussion.

1) Are we talking vintage basses, or vintage Fender basses?

2) Are we talking collector basses, or player-grade basses, or both?

How we set the parameters will influence the responses to the thread.

 

[stringthrough]

Guitar Center Hollywood had the most amazing "vintage" room during this period. Dozens of vintage Rics and Gibson, and probably 100 P and J basses. The room was set up for easy browsing and you could pull anything you wanted to try without having to ask.

Some real firewood in there! But boy, what a candy store.

When the market died down, the collector's room quietly faded down with it.

I remember visiting a local high-end vintage guitar store (that will remain nameless) around 2008. The owner showed me a '54 Strat in VG condition priced at $225,000. Oy Vey!..... At that time he was calling his old customers, asking to buy back guitars he sold them in years past. He must have taken a major haircut on some of his instruments post 2009.

 

[Son of Wobble]

At that time he was calling his old customers, asking to buy back guitars he sold them in years past. He must have taken a major haircut on some of his instruments post 2009.

Ouch. Well, as @bassgirls observed, money chases bubbles.

I've flipped quite a few axes "priced to sell" to buyers who clearly could not play,
only to see the instrument marked up a couple hundred back on CL marked up an additional $200
within days. So now even with cheaper gear, non-playing speculators are searching for market inefficiencies
to exploit.

 

[5thsand4ths]

@bassgirls Also agree with your point that tone is where you find it, and not necessarily related to era.

Here my cats are seen rocking out on a Frankefender -- GC MIM FSR ash body with stock pickup, and a 2001 MIA
neck of a hot-rod PJ. This guitar is as aggressive as any 70's ash and Maple I've heard, and the two guitars it is built from cost a total of $875. Mind you, for that price I also have a WHOLE other bass guitar.

View attachment 2883161 View attachment 2883162

Cat relicing can only add value.

 

[bassgirls]

Ouch. Well, as @bassgirls observed, money chases bubbles.

I've flipped quite a few axes "priced to sell" to buyers who clearly could not play,
only to see the instrument marked up a couple hundred back on CL marked up an additional $200
within days. So now even with cheaper gear, non-playing speculators are searching for market inefficiencies
to exploit.

From flipping houses to flipping instruments! I wonder if we'll get a TV show. Bubbles everywhere!

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I think I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I dislike vintage gear. It's expensive to buy, but then also expensive to maintain, and you then have to worry about using it and ruining the value. So these aren't really for musicians anymore but collectors, and that's probably why they are being bid up. There is a lot of money sloshing around from all the printing the government did in those QE programs, and that money finds itself into all kinds of things, even vintage basses. If I had one I'd sell it.

Also, I think all the baby boomers dying in the next 10-20 years is bearish for vintage prices. Millennials and GenX can't really afford the prices they want.

I like new instruments, but limited runs. The bass I wound up buying is new but only 500 were made (it's the USA made Magnificent 7 PJ bass). I also bought a Fender Jazzmaster where only 50 where made. I'd rather do that and pay a lot less for just as good an instrument then get involved in vintage (money pit I'd be afraid to use and ruin) and since they're limited in quantity maybe they even appreciate. That's just one girl's opinion, though! To each their own.

The only exception to me are vintage amps because they are really hard to break so I wouldn't fear using it, and they truly do sound better. I never played a vintage bass or guitar that sounded or functioned better than a modern one.

We have kind of an odd place around here that in addition to having a sound studio, sells a lot of ol... uh vintage gear. The owner once told me his primary clientele are the 60 plus crowd who couldn't afford this stuff when they were in their teens/20's.

 

[Spidey2112]

@bassgirls Also agree with your point that tone is where you find it, and not necessarily related to era.

Here my cats are seen rocking out on a Frankefender -- GC MIM FSR ash body with stock pickup, and a 2001 MIA
neck of a hot-rod PJ. This guitar is as aggressive as any 70's ash and Maple I've heard, and the two guitars it is built from cost a total of $875. Mind you, for that price I also have a WHOLE other bass guitar.

View attachment 2883161 View attachment 2883162

I hope you recorded them 'playing'... looks like fun, for them.

 

[bolophonic]

I have been browsing the old Fender's in particular and the prices blow me away. Call me naive, call me ignorant but what makes an instrument that was made in the 60's and the 70's cost anything between $2.000 and more than $8.000? Where the electronics made by superior or advanced components? Where the trees from which the wood came any better than those of today? Did the procedure of building a quality instrument not improve? Or is it simply nostalgia of the teenage years that idolizes everything about that era?

I don’t know, dude. Why do you think?

 

[Aberdumbie]

Old guys (like me) that finally have a little coin in their pockets want what they dreamed of when they were young. Simple as that..... You think old basses are crazy expensive? I know a fellow that collects old Star Wars action figures that cost .99 cents back in the day..... He spends hundreds on these lumps of plastic. Go figure...

 

[selowitch]

I know a fellow that collects old Star Wars action figures that cost .99 cents back in the day..... He spends hundreds on these lumps of plastic. Go figure...

This I can understand. I bought those as a kid when they were new. Fun toys!

 

[AcridSaint]

I have been browsing the old Fender's in particular and the prices blow me away. Call me naive, call me ignorant but what makes an instrument that was made in the 60's and the 70's cost anything between $2.000 and more than $8.000? Where the electronics made by superior or advanced components? Where the trees from which the wood came any better than those of today? Did the procedure of building a quality instrument not improve? Or is it simply nostalgia of the teenage years that idolizes everything about that era?

Supply and demand. Lots of old stuff sells for more than face value or a new equivalent. Why are rare coins worth more than their minted value?

 

[Pdaddy1978]

The collectable market is drivin from 3 things....
1. Scarcity.... How many are around
2. Desirability....How many people want one
3. Condition...... How close to it's brand new shape it's in
This same formula also applies to comic books, baseball cards, Tiffany lamps, and Yugoslavian snuff boxes.
Vintage bass guitars are now collectables. If I had the discretionary funds, I'd probably have alot of old basses.
When the desirability quotient is high, the market balloons on the other factors, making " iffy" examples of something more or less "valuable".
Alot of people want an old bass right now, so their more expensive.......boom.

 

[Bassheart365]

I have zero desire to buy a "vintage" instrument. My Canadian made custom Dingwalls are superior in every way to any vintage era bass, including a Precision or Jazz bass. And if I wanted to buy a Precision or Jazz bass, I'd go boutique, namely, Sadowski, and still have money left over from what a pre-CBS Precision or jazz would cost. The vintage bass market is mostly driven by collectors, not working bassists.

 

[JMacBass65]

No offense, but this isn't exactly a new thing.