Vintage Old Fender - I don't get it.

[nortonrider]

I don't get how this thread has lasted 14 pages.
It wasn't all that long ago when TB'ers would have pounced on the OP in a heartbeat and flamed him to death for starting such a thread.

 

[mongo2]

"a fool and their money are soon parted."

WOW, a fool? Dang man, that's harsh, and completely wrong...for all the reasons I just stated in my early'r post.
now if you said "a wise man and his money are temporarily parted until he re-sells",Well then I could get on-board!

Old saying are old sayings for a reason, but I find your version humorous too. What happens if/when the bottom falls out of the vintage market?

LOL! Look the same logic you've claimed here against buying an old Fender can be applied to just about anything or any piece of "pricey" gear.

I do. And it's the insistence that there's some sort of magical nonsense associated with old instruments that I know isn't real, not the buying of old instruments.

Whether it pisses you off or not

It doesn't.

there IS a bit of magic in buying/playing a really nice old piece of gear in whatever brand you dig.

There's no such thing as magic. That's just a good piece of gear being a good piece of gear, no matter how old it is or where it was made or what it's made from.

Hell, don't get me wrong I have plenty of the new CS stuff that I absolutely love as well....now getting my cash back on that stuff can be a problem but again I don't buy it for the re-sale i buy it cause it's really well made and i happen to enjoy immensely playing a nice piece of gear.

Ok.

 

[SlapHappyPappy]

"I don't believe in magic."
Ahh, That's where we differ my friend!
to live in a world where there is no hope of a 'lil magic?.
It's all good man! i think we can agree that jamming unto itself invokes the very same magic we believers speak of no?
anyway like i said it's all good and to each his own

to answer your "If bottom falls out" question....that's easy, then you loose money...but after all, that isn't gonna happen and if it did, the money is a secondary consideration to the original point and only a nice side benefit that goes along with buying/playing a nice vintage piece

 

[mongo2]

"I don't believe in magic."
Ahh, That's where we differ my friend!
to live in a world where there is no hope of a 'lil magic?.
It's all good man! i think we can agree that jamming unto itself invokes the very same magic we believers speak of no?
anyway like i said it's all good and to each his own

Except there's no such thing as magic.

 

[Rocktometrist]

Are old Fender basses inherently "better"? Almost certainly not--modern hand-built clones do a good job of aping vintage tones, while featuring incredibly exacting construction and superior versatility.

However, to those kinds of people who think funky old stuff is cool, there is no substitute. And hats off to those nuts--because without them, there wouldn't be treasured old '57 Chevys, Victorian houses, cool old instruments of all types, vintage tones in music, or all the assorted neat old crap that shows up on the Antiques Road Show.

So call it what you want: "mojo", "cool", whatever. There are reasons to enjoy and treasure things that extend beyond simple utility. Some people find enjoyment in neat old relics and sounds from the past. I myself own a '67 Bass V in addition to my Zons and modern high-end Fender. Variety is the spice of life; to each their own; live and let live; don't be a hater; etc.

 

[Jim Carr]

Well-made instruments from the past teach us about how people made music, how they thought and felt, and how life has changed. Learning those things is how we more fully discover who we are now.

 

[mongo2]

Well-made instruments from the past teach us about how people made music, how they thought and felt, and how life has changed.

How they thought and felt? How do they do that?

 

[MegaSwing]

I prefer "A fool and his money is some party".

 

[MegaSwing]

Hey, Mongo. I totally feel what you're saying. Unfortunately or not, that's how the marketplace works; you know as well as anyone.

Despite its vaunted status as the arbiter of everything valuable and worthwhile, the marketplace is not a seeker of truth or wisdom, just where the money wants to go.

If people want to spend ridiculous money for an ancient Fender, it's their right. I think it's unlikely to make them play better or get a particular gig, but strictly from a financial standpoint, it IS a really good place to store money.

 

[Jim Carr]

How they thought and felt? How do they do that?

What do physical anthropologists learn from stone tools, bone fragments, cave paintings, antler flutes, and footprints?

Artifacts show us their maker's skill, intelligence, aesthetics, human weakness, technology, even traditions.

I'm not suggesting we are all martian musicologists or scholars, but we are all equally human.

 

[tunewriter]

As long as someone will pay a premium for an inferior instrument they will remain expensive. With all the electronics available today for tone modification/reinforcement, how can anyone say the old ones sound better. Let's give some credit to modern advances in technology and materials. Of course, exceptions abound but, as a rule, most newer basses play and sound better. Antiques tend to be rare, expensive and nice to have. But if you are a working musician, get the right tool for the job. Not an antique for the wall.

 

[bassie12]

But if you are a working musician, get the right tool for the job. Not an antique for the wall.

I am a working musician, producer and recording engineer. More often than not, my vintage instruments ARE the right tools for the job in direct comparison to Fodera, MTD, Lakland and other excellent instruments(see, I said something nice about "superior" instruments and my skin didn't fall off). No magic, mojo, or delusion. In studio, we record both, listen and decide. My 67 Jazz, '59 P, and miscellaneous 60's Precisions win out often enough for me to keep them. They also get rented out frequently to high profile recording artists and have made many times the initial investment back over the years.

On the gig, I play my vintage instruments. They feel and sound right. You play what you like, I'll play what I like. I get why you like yours, you don't need to get why I like mine. My instruments aren't antiques for a wall. I'd sooner give them away to players who would appreciate them rather than know they aren't being used to make music. You probably won't be seeing any UPS shipments from me ever.

Edited to add: I have owned vintage dogs, and sold them. I own modern stuff and use it where it is appropriate. Usually the vintage stuff sounds better in the mix. Nothing sounds as wonderful as a well played Fodera 6 string and in direct comparison many vintage instruments do not shine. But in the mix, a vintage Fender often sounds "right" and the Fodera will need tweaking to make it fit. Just my experience.

Of course, your mileage may vary. I only speak for myself.

 

[mongo2]

What do physical anthropologists learn from stone tools, bone fragments, cave paintings, antler flutes, and footprints?

Artifacts show us their maker's skill, intelligence, aesthetics, human weakness, technology, even traditions.

But they don't show how they thought or felt.

They are examples of their technology and the anthropologists try to figure out how that technology was used. The anthropologists seem to have a lot of hypotheses and theories, but they don't really know for sure. Nothing is written in stone, literally. Even when it is, the translations can be subject to interpretation.

Example: The Pyramids and the Sphinx. They really have no idea how they were made. I was just watching one anthropologist discuss his theory of how the Sphinx may be a lot older than originally thought and originally had a lion's head that was recut into a human head a millennia later...apparently his idea is disputed.

 

[Double E]

As long as someone will pay a premium for an inferior instrument they will remain expensive. With all the electronics available today for tone modification/reinforcement, how can anyone say the old ones sound better. Let's give some credit to modern advances in technology and materials. Of course, exceptions abound but, as a rule, most newer basses play and sound better. Antiques tend to be rare, expensive and nice to have. But if you are a working musician, get the right tool for the job. Not an antique for the wall.

You are assuming that "better" is not subjective. Just because something is new or advanced does not always make it better and the fact that you happen to think that it is, doesn't make it absolute truth.

 

[bassie12]

You are assuming that "better" is not subjective. Just because something is new or advanced does not always make it better

+1000

Just because something is older doesn't make it better either. What makes something better is it's actually being better in a practical situation than what it is compared to.

 

[Mastermold]

You are assuming that "better" is not subjective. Just because something is new or advanced does not always make it better and the fact that you happen to think that it is, doesn't make it absolute truth.

That's why people like vintage gear--at least the guys I jam with. They want vintage tone and the originals are what they are after. Reissues are close, originals are better at giving them the tone they want.

But if vintage tone isn't what you're after, then it's not for you.

 

[malthumb]

...

Whther or not they are betteer than the best of today's instruments is irrelevent. They represent the best of what was available in their era and play exactly as I remember them playing when I played them.. Now, would I go out and spend $$$ on a vintage Gibson Ripper, a bass I used to lust after back in that same timeframe? No. I have no real tangible history with that bass and wouldn't know a good one from a not so good one.

Whether they're better or not becomes relevant when the vintage fans start bragging about how much "better" they are just because they are "vintage" when they obviously have no clue.

I was there, and instruments were just like today, some were good, some were stinkers but the vast majority were just average...nothing "best" about them. However, today I find there is a higher percentage of comparatively good instruments especially in the lower price segments.

I would certainly agree that in the past, as is the case today, quality of instruments varied. I've experienced both old and new that ranged from "suck" to "decent" to "really good" to "wow!" There are a lot more options for great instruments at reasonable prices today than when I first started playing.

I think some of the angst in this thread is because people ASSUME that the only reason to buy a vintage bass is because the buyer thinks it is BETTER than new product. Some people might actually feel that way, but I am sure that doesn't apply to everyone.

Are my '79 and '80 Musicman Sabres BETTER than the Sabres that Ernie Ball just re-introduced? I've played them back to back. The new Sabres are very nice and I'd say marginally better than my vintage pieces. I wouldn't mind owning one. They are priced $1,600 - 1,900 at GC. I did not pay anywhere near that for either of my vintage Sabres and they are damn good basses. They would have been near the top of their class in 1979-80, probably middle of the pack these days. But the purchase decision is made including all relevant information, and for my older Sabres, that includes the fact that I used to own and really enjoy basses of that vintage, so I know what to expect. If I wanted THE BEST Musicman bass, I would have probably bought a Bongo 5 string. Best Musicman basis e ever played or owned. Thing is, getting THE BEST wasn't my mission. Getting a vintage Sabre or Stingray in decent condition that played and sounded good was.

I can imagine that some folks feel the same way about some Fender models as well as other brands.

 

[mongo2]

I am a working musician, producer and recording engineer. More often than not, my vintage instruments ARE the right tools for the job in direct comparison to Fodera, MTD, Lakland and other excellent instruments(see, I said something nice about "superior" instruments and my skin didn't fall off). No magic, mojo, or delusion. In studio, we record both, listen and decide. My 67 Jazz, '59 P, and miscellaneous 60's Precisions win out often enough for me to keep them. They also get rented out frequently to high profile recording artists and have made many times the initial investment back over the years.

On the gig, I play my vintage instruments. The feel and sound right. You play what you like, I'll play what I like. I get why you like yours, you don't need to get why I like mine. My instruments aren't antiques for a wall. I'd sooner give them away to players who would appreciate them rather than know they aren't being used to make music. You probably won't be seeing any UPS shipments from me ever.

Of course, your mileage may vary. I only speak for myself.

Here's my anecdote: We recorded some demos at a local studio. I brought my Indonesian Hofner Club bass but the engineer insisted I use his '69 J bass for the recordings.

We went 'round and 'round for a bit and I agreed to try them both. Long story short...you guessed it...he preferred the cuts with the Hofner and even offered to buy it from me.

Tonight I'll be gigging with my DIY shortscale washtub EUB on an NS stand but that's another story for another day.

 

[bassie12]

Here's my anecdote: We recorded some demos at a local studio. I brought my Indonesian Hofner Club bass but the engineer insisted I use his '69 J bass for the recordings.

We went 'round and 'round for a bit and I agreed to try them both. Long story short...you guessed it...he preferred the cuts with the Hofner and even offered to buy it from me.

I have no problem with this. I never insist on anything. That's a great way to kill a vibe during what is supposed to be a creative experience. My clients know about my instruments and are welcome to them. I have no problem going with what sounds better in any situation. I just stated my experience.

 

[The Bass Clef]

Here's my anecdote: We recorded some demos at a local studio. I brought my Indonesian Hofner Club bass but the engineer insisted I use his '69 J bass for the recordings.

We went 'round and 'round for a bit and I agreed to try them both. Long story short...you guessed it...he preferred the cuts with the Hofner and even offered to buy it from me.

That's cool, but what does that have to do with anything? We are not dense just because we like old Fenders. We universally all understand that a different bass, other than a vintage Fender might sound better on a particular song, or to someone else's ears, etc.. Maybe his '69 was POS with dying p/us. Or maybe it was the best sounding bass Fender ever made, but he liked your bass too. Why is that so crazy that someone liked the sound of a couple different basses?

I'm just trying to make it clear that no one is saying your (or any) $200 back up bass can't sound awesome too.. or feel amazing. But for some reason it seems to be beyond your grasp that, so can an old Fender! If we choose to spend $5k to get the sound, feel or even the look we want, why do you have such a problem with that? It's like your are on a crusade to make sure no one believes in Fender. Were you hurt by an old Fender?