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Walking over changes??!!PLEASE HELP!!

#82
Pcocobass said:
But, at least, if this guy does wanna be the next RB, he's got some good info to put him on the right track, and so does anyone else checking this out......
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This is the beauty of TB - so nobody can expect to get one-to-one attention, like "real-world lessons" here - but the real value is that something can be written once and a lot of people get something out of it.

So if it was case of answering every question on an individual basis every time it came up - then I don't think many people would be up for doing this; but if you feel that writing it once can benefit a lot of people, then it feels more worthwhile making the effort to get it right! :)
 
#83
Bruce Lindfield said:
This is the beauty of TB - so nobody can expect to get one-to-one attention, like "real-world lessons" here - but the real value is that something can be written once and a lot of people get something out of it.

So if it was case of answering every question on an individual basis every time it came up - then I don't think many people would be up for doing this; but if you feel that writing it once can benefit a lot of people, then it feels more worthwhile making the effort to get it right! :)
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Very well put. I agree wholeheartedly, as long as the original person who doesn't even know the difference between a minor and major chord doesn't get overwhelmed, frustrated and ultimately turned off by people who overlook this fact, and neglect to be helpful because they're too busy talking to each other about the "relative importance of harmony vs. rhythm in music", etc.
 
#84
Maybe the answer is to first give the person the urgently needed nuts & bolts information (play an Ab on the F minor chord), and then steer him or her to the stuff which will keep providing inspiration and motivation over the ensuing years. A newbie isn't about to start transcribing Oscar Pettiford and Paul Chambers recordings today, but might draw tremendous inspiration from *listening* to them for, say, a few years, first. Likewise, a book like Ed Friedland's is great, and should absolutely be recommended, but I'd expect it see it mentioned as a response to "How do I approach the art of walking", not "How do I color inside the lines on this one tune?"
True, there's no one-on-one teaching on this site, but answering a beginner's urgent question with a lifetime study agenda just doesn't make sense to me.
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious and being redundant.
I'll go away now... :hmm:
 
#85
I have to again recommend Ed Friedland's Walking Bass Lines book as well. I've been working through it again for the last two days and it reminded me how good this book is.

What would be a good book to move onto after Walking Bass Lines? If I get this book and its concepts down solid am I ready for Levine's Jazz Theory or Reid's Evolving bassist books?
 
#86
WillPlay4Food said:
I have to again recommend Ed Friedland's Walking Bass Lines book as well. I've been working through it again for the last two days and it reminded me how good this book is.

What would be a good book to move onto after Walking Bass Lines? If I get this book and its concepts down solid am I ready for Levine's Jazz Theory or Reid's Evolving bassist books?
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I think the thing to do would not be to look for another book but to look for live playing situations where you can apply what you've learned, listen back and refine.
 
#87
dougjwray said:
A newbie isn't about to start transcribing Oscar Pettiford and Paul Chambers recordings today, but might draw tremendous inspiration from *listening* to them for, say, a few years, first.
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I gotta disagree with this. Why is there a certain amount of time needed before one can transcribe great bass lines? You have to start somewhere. Why not when your new to the game? You'll be that much better. To me, it's no different than transcribing great rock bass lines. Is there a time limit needed to transcribe these, too?

Transcribing is difficult for EVERYONE at first, and you only get better at it by DOING it A LOT. If you want to learn jazz, learn from the masters.
 
#88
Okay, point well taken. I was only trying to suggest that a teacher might risk blowing away a student with stuff that's too advanced. With the right student, on the other hand, some overreaching is great.
Long ago, I had a guitar student who told me he was dying to learn all of Kiss's guitar solos. I said, okay, we'll see what we can do. At the first lesson, he pulled out his guitar and asked me whether his fingers should go "on or between the shiny metal things" (the frets). Now, I ask you-- was he ready to transcribe solos?
 
#89
Phil Smith said:
I think the thing to do would not be to look for another book but to look for live playing situations where you can apply what you've learned, listen back and refine.
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I found an old friend of mine who now lives the next town over who plays guitar. We've jammed once so far and will do so again soon (especially once I get this cast of my foot this afternoon and can drive again). That's probably as close to live playing as I'll get anytime soon as my hands are quite full with working and family life. I know that playing with other people is the best way to get better, because it's inspiring as well as educational. A band, however, is completely out of the question for at least a couple years. Then I have to find one that would want me to play! ;)
 
#90
dougjwray said:
Okay, point well taken. I was only trying to suggest that a teacher might risk blowing away a student with stuff that's too advanced. With the right student, on the other hand, some overreaching is great.
Long ago, I had a guitar student who told me he was dying to learn all of Kiss's guitar solos. I said, okay, we'll see what we can do. At the first lesson, he pulled out his guitar and asked me whether his fingers should go "on or between the shiny metal things" (the frets). Now, I ask you-- was he ready to transcribe solos?
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It depends how good your ears are. I was transcribing within a few months of playing e bass. I just figured out stuff I liked - even though I didn't know the fingerboard well. I think we're both right. A lot does depend on each individual.
 
#91
I am by no means an accomplished bass player, let alone jazz musician, so, well, there you have it, a pinch of salt may be required :)

I approach walking bass lines as melodies. In my mind, a melody is equally defined by both the rhythm and the notes.

I'm a real begineer to jazz and one thing I really try to focus on is trying not to run before I can walk, if you'll pardon the crappy, very predictable, pun...

So, whenever I approach a new tune I work foremost on the harmony, playing chord/scale tones in crochets or minims until I start to hear new ways of moving between those basic tones. Then I start to think about using any written, or implied, extensions, then - only when I start to feel comfortable with holding the harmony - do I start to think about moving away from crochets. I find that if I 'take risks' with the rhythm before I'm reasonabley solid on the movement of the changes, it fecks everyone up. Even then, sheet happens ;)
 
#92
also, the tutor of my group on a course a few weeks back made a very valid point: the root note is the most satisfying note to play and to hear.

I liked that because it's so easy to get into the notion of playing something 'clever' , even when, like me, you're not capable of doing so, but dammit that root note sounds good!!
 
#93
Howard K said:
also, the tutor of my group on a course a few weeks back made a very valid point: the root note is the most satisfying note to play and to hear.

I liked that because it's so easy to get into the notion of playing something 'clever' , even when, like me, you're not capable of doing so, but dammit that root note sounds good!!
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Hi Howard - back to the real world after Glam Jazz!! ;)

I had a great time again, but my car was a write-off - spent the last two weeks sorting it out and just bought a new one this morning!! :)
 
#94
Howard K said:
So, whenever I approach a new tune I work foremost on the harmony, playing chord/scale tones in crochets or minims until I start to hear new ways of moving between those basic tones. Then I start to think about using any written, or implied, extensions, then - only when I start to feel comfortable with holding the harmony - do I start to think about moving away from crochets. I find that if I 'take risks' with the rhythm before I'm reasonabley solid on the movement of the changes, it fecks everyone up. Even then, sheet happens ;)
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Good advice. For the Americans here, crochet=quarter note, and minim=eighth note, if I remember correctly...
 
#95
Pcocobass said:
Good advice. For the Americans here, crochet=quarter note, and minim=eighth note, if I remember correctly...
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A minim is a half note, but a crochet is a quarter note.

http://www.gamecabinet.com/letters/MusicalDominoes.html said:
# semibreve = whole note (4 beats)
# minim = half note (2 beats)
# crochet = quarter note (1 beat)
# quaver = eighth note (1/2 beat)
# semiquaver = sixteenth note (1/4 beat)
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http://www.chrisamillion.com/Music%20Theory/MusicTheory1.htm said:
Code: 
Semibrieve			one note		4 beats
Minim				half note		2
Crochet				quarter note		1
Quaver				eighth note		1/2
Semiquaver			sixteenth note		1/4
Demi-semiquaver			thirty-second note	1/8
Semi-demi-semiquaver 		sixty-fourth note 	1/16
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#96
WillPlay4Food said:
I have to again recommend Ed Friedland's Walking Bass Lines book as well. I've been working through it again for the last two days and it reminded me how good this book is.

What would be a good book to move onto after Walking Bass Lines? If I get this book and its concepts down solid am I ready for Levine's Jazz Theory or Reid's Evolving bassist books?
Click to expand...

I found the best thing to do was to start transcribing lots of basslines, analysing them as I go.
 
#97
Wow, I can't believe I just read this whole thread :eek:

It's really interesting to see just how much thought goes in to some of these posts, and as someone (or several someone's) stated, jazz is more of an intellectual style of music ... that is, when you take the time to study it and analyze it :)

I was very fortunate, I started my playing in the jazz world and learned by listening and feeling the music, not by analyzing it. Frankly, I don't think I ever did analyze what I was playing while in the somewhat early stages of my playing, and I certainly do not analyze now after 44+ years (and I'm not saying that this is a good thing ;) ).

To be fair, my schooling was at a world renowned highly regarded institution, and I spent many years analyzing classical music, so undoubtedly much of that knowledge found its way over to my jazz roots. But to me, jazz is a feel and groove, not a mechanically-learned series of phrases/patterns .... of course, note selection/use is absolutely critical, but it needs to come from deep inside. I'm not sure how to translate that to a young cat just starting to play the bass. I'm not thinking dorian or mixolydian while playing, I'm just playing .....

Props to all of the posters in this thread for their input, some very insightful things were posted here, even for an old -timer like me. But to the young player who started this thread, don't be discouraged ..... give it some time and you'll begin to develop the feel. And listen to and feel the music :cool:
 
#99
Pcocobass said:
Thanks. I knew I'd screw that up. My stuffy conducting teacher would be very upset with me if he saw that...
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I just ran into those note length names a few days ago myself. I googled a couple different sources to make sure I got it right as well. I think 64th note is a heck of a lot easier to remember than semi demi-semiquaver(?). :)
 

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