Walking over changes??!!PLEASE HELP!!

[Pcocobass]

I'm in a desperate situation so any help would be GREATLY appreciated!Can anyone tell me how to walk over Ebmaj7 for 2 measures, then Bbmi7 for 1, Eb7 for 1, Abmaj7 for 2 Abmin7 for one, Db7 for 1, Ebmaj7 for one, F#mi7/B7, Fmin7 for one, Bb7 for one, Ebmaj7 for one,F#mi7/B7,Fmin7 for one,Bb7 for one, Gmi7 for one,F#mi7/B7,Ebmaj7 for 2. PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE!!!Help
Thanks

It seems to me that the short term answers for walking prresented here are okay for the most part (aside from all the rhythm/note choice stuff).

But, IMO, a long term answer is gonna suit you better. If you want to learn how to walk over FOUR, go buy "Workin' With the Miles Davis Quintet" or download it off iTunes and transcribe Paul Chamber's bass line! If you learn the s*** out of it, then you'll OWN Four... Then do this with every other tune you wanna learn and you'll start to get the idea. Transcribe Ron Carter, Ray Brown, Israel Crosby, Oscar Pettiford, etc.

Although I think that note choice and rhythmic variety are both important, for a beginner, I'd have to say that note choice is paramount. Lots of young players use too much rhythmic crap to mask poor note choice. Also, if you can't play it IN TIME, don't do it at all - you'll just mess up the time of the whole band...my 2 cents.

 

[Phil Smith]

Oh, was this directed at me? I should check here more often.
Yes, and it seems from my humble observations that, quite frankly, almost everythig said after your post was useless to the topic. While it may have to do with the topic being adressed, it doesn't help that poor guy a bit.
And your post, while it certainly works, isn't a real walking bassline. It's playing the notes of the chords, but it's not walking.

How about posting what is walking?

 

[geoffkhan]

It seems to me that the short term answers for walking prresented here are okay for the most part (aside from all the rhythm/note choice stuff).

But, IMO, a long term answer is gonna suit you better. If you want to learn how to walk over FOUR, go buy "Workin' With the Miles Davis Quintet" or download it off iTunes and transcribe Paul Chamber's bass line! If you learn the s*** out of it, then you'll OWN Four... Then do this with every other tune you wanna learn and you'll start to get the idea. Transcribe Ron Carter, Ray Brown, Israel Crosby, Oscar Pettiford, etc.

Although I think that note choice and rhythmic variety are both important, for a beginner, I'd have to say that note choice is paramount. Lots of young players use too much rhythmic crap to mask poor note choice. Also, if you can't play it IN TIME, don't do it at all - you'll just mess up the time of the whole band...my 2 cents.

Great points!

I have seen transcription books of basslines out there, but transcribing them yourself is really the way to go, IMO. You learn so much more from doing it yourself.

 

[Pcocobass]

Great points!

I have seen transcription books of basslines out there, but transcribing them yourself is really the way to go, IMO. You learn so much more from doing it yourself.

Yup. You got it. Ray Brown said once that when he was young, he'd sit next to the record player listening to Duke's band and listen to and learn every note that Jimmy Blanton played. If it worked for Ray, then who am I to argue?!

 

[Zebra]

How about posting what is walking?

What do you mean? Do you mean that you think that's a real walking bassline? If you want an example of one, read my first post.

 

[tkarter]

If you describe movement of music by R35 and you are interested in teaching you will say something like this.

R 35 for major chords.

R b3 5 minor chords

R 3 5 b7 for 7th chords

Most bass players don't play the 7th on a Maj 7th chord.

Those things teach.

Of course if someone can read music then they don't need you or I to tell them the sequence of the chord they play what is written.

There are some very knowledgable bass players in this thread. Not one has helped the poster.

I am old enough you can ignore me all you want. Anyone thinks they have taught anyone music in this thread is wrong.

All that has been taught here is how to disagree on something we all love.

IMHO

tk

 

[Aaron Saunders]

Well that's the thing....I've heard Ed's walking lines and they are "the business" (go over to DB side and you can easily find lots of MP3s of his playing)...so I would suggest he knows what he's talking of and that people would do well to listen....?

I'm fully aware of the quality of Ed's playing, and I'm not disagreeing with him. You might notice that I was saying that everything contributes together, and that no one thing is more important than the other, and Ed was simply debating against the thought that rhythm is more important than note choice -- which is of course total bunk, especially in walking lines. IMO, he's totally right on this -- if doesn't matter how many ways you dress up a walking line with spits and triplets, that if the notes aren't there, then you don't have anything other than a bunch of spits and triplets.

 

[Pcocobass]

If you describe movement of music by R35 and you are interested in teaching you will say something like this.

R 35 for major chords.

R b3 5 minor chords

R 3 5 b7 for 7th chords

Most bass players don't play the 7th on a Maj 7th chord.

Those things teach.

Of course if someone can read music then they don't need you or I to tell them the sequence of the chord they play what is written.

There are some very knowledgable bass players in this thread. Not one has helped the poster.

I am old enough you can ignore me all you want. Anyone thinks they have taught anyone music in this thread is wrong.

All that has been taught here is how to disagree on something we all love.

IMHO

tk

Unfortunately, there is no magic formula that someone can present on this thread that's gonna teach you how to play solid walking bass. Although there is some back and forth bickering here, there is also some good solid information. If you want a good book to check out, I recommend Mike Richmond's Walking Bass. It presents many good walking lines that become increasingly more difficult and rhythmically complicated. I'd also suggest getting a private teacher if you don't have one.

But walking is something that takes a LONG TIME to learn how to do well...I'm sure all the older (no offense) guys here would agree. It is something that I personally work on daily by transcribing and listening to a lot of music. The R M3 P5 stuff will only take you so far and many times creates a sad sounding cliche...

Also, check out the Reading Room. There's a great article on walking by Chris Fitzgerald.

 

[geoffkhan]

I'm fully aware of the quality of Ed's playing, and I'm not disagreeing with him. You might notice that I was saying that everything contributes together, and that no one thing is more important than the other, and Ed was simply debating against the thought that rhythm is more important than note choice -- which is of course total bunk, especially in walking lines. IMO, he's totally right on this -- if doesn't matter how many ways you dress up a walking line with spits and triplets, that if the notes aren't there, then you don't have anything other than a bunch of spits and triplets.

Your right, I need to spend more time thinking and playing before I can make a claim like that. Sounds like your perspective is a good way to go, though.

 

[tkarter]

That is teaching Kiwi.

I did not ask how to walk. I asked about a b3 on minor chords.

I know there are some very good and even great bass players here.
I know you can't tell someone how to create a walking line off of a chord sequence.

Without rythm and time I wouldn't even try. There are formulas for walking lines.

Ed gave very good advice right away.

Any further comments should have been to teach but wasn't until the kiwi posted.

IMHO



tk

 

[Pcocobass]

Jazz music is an aural art form.

When I was a young electric bassist and I wanted to learn a rock tune, I'd sit down with the record and figure it out myself. Why, when people start trying to play jazz, they don't take this same attitude, but instead make it an intellectual head game? How come I have so many private students who are in jr high or high school jazz band, but none of them own even one jazz record!? They say they want to play jazz, but they don't even know who Oscar Pettiford is!? And then they wonder why they never know what the hell is going on.

If you want to take your playing to the next level, you MUST immerse yourself in the music. There ain't no other way. Every great jazz musician I know is steeped in the tradition of the music. Don't think there are any shortcuts because unfortunately, there are none.

That's why I say, if you want to learn Four, get the record and learn it the right way.

Just my opinion...

 

[Aaron Saunders]

students who are in jr high or high school jazz band, but none of them own even one jazz record!?

This is something I've noticed about our school jazz band. Out of everyone in the band (somewhere around 13,) I'm one of 4 who actually listen to jazz on a regular basis, and I'm the only one who spends a lot of time researching the history, theory, and musicians (my CD library is somewhere in the realm of 50+ jazz CDs at the moment -- paltry to most, a mint to the school) behind what we're playing. That 4 includes 2 sax players (alto/tenor and tenor/bari,) the drummer, and myself.

 

[Aaron Saunders]

5. Use Repetition within the progression. eg use the above wwalk pattern for all chord changes. Again, this assists with harmonic flow of the progression.

7. Use dynamics in the walk ie loud, soft, behind/infront of the beat, etc. and show it in the music score, exactly where it's going to happen.

8. Plan it out, leave nothing to chance, esp if your job is to hold the ensemble together.

Advice like this worries me a lot.

RE: #5 -- There are two things playing the same line over the same progression as it reappears in the song (especially on two-fives) will result in. On one hand, if you're in a group and the soloist is playing really "out there," this might help give the listener something to hold onto as a point of reference. The other, intensely more common, and entirely unpleasant experience is that it makes the bassline boring as hell. Can't say I've never repeated myself, but it's something I try to avoid. However, conciously telling someone to repeat the same line they play on a Dm7->G7 every time it appears in a song is just telling them to make boring ass lines, and to screw the concept of originality upon which all jazz is based and evaluated.

RE: #7 -- Outside of big band arrangements, I can honestly say that I've never seen or heard of anyone playing, note for note, completely writ from a musical score in jazz. Ever. Jazz is about improvsation, about reacting to your environment, listening, musical chemistry. These aren't classical concertos here, people. Jazz is full of mistakes. Miles even messed up himself on one of his single most well known recordings (So What -- IIRC, he went to Ebm7 a bar or two early.) Besides, if he actually did #1, this step is not only unncessary, but harmful to development as a competent musician in the jazz idiom (if not an actual jazz musician.)

RE: #8 - See above.

EDIT: Just as a note -- if I walked into a jam session or rehearsal with my quintet, handing out sheets with written out parts and solos not for note (complete with dynamics, tempo changes, and when to play on what part of the beat,) I'd get laughed out of the room. I can't even imagine Ed's reaction to this.

 

[geoffkhan]

You're probably right.

It's just some ideas to get the guy started.

You realise he was in a panic and pleding.

Just some ideas, take it or leave it.

I'm trying to help, and I get humiliated.

I didn't see YOU providing some notation as an example.

Me no care, I'm outta this thread!

Goodbye


-chris

It seems like the tips (and notation!) you posted were just the sort of thing the original poster needed. Thank you for your helpfulness!

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

It's just some ideas to get the guy started.

Just some ideas, take it or leave it.

I'm trying to help....

I think you have to be careful about offering advice if you aren't 100% sure about it - do you want to be the one who sets somebody on a lifetime of "bad habits" that may hinder their progress by many years..?

 

[Pcocobass]

I didn't see YOU providing some notation as an example.

Me no care, I'm outta this thread!

Goodbye


-chris

It doesn't make a difference if the notation you provide is faulty. Also, without any chord changes over the notation, how would you even apply this practically to your playing? I'm sure you meant well so don't feel too bad about it...

 

[Lorenzini]

I know this was probably commented on, but that's Four isn't it?=)

 

[Phil Smith]

I think you have to be careful about offering advice if you aren't 100% sure about it - do you want to be the one who sets somebody on a lifetime of "bad habits" that may hinder their progress by many years..?

Yeah, we wouldn't want to destroy future careers, you know, record deals, groupies, endorsements. You have to be careful about these things i.e. offering advice or sharing information because as we know, no one thinks for themselves or comes to their own conclusion as to what is good, bad, right or wrong for themselves.

 

[Phil Smith]

Jazz music is an aural art form.

When I was a young electric bassist and I wanted to learn a rock tune, I'd sit down with the record and figure it out myself. Why, when people start trying to play jazz, they don't take this same attitude, but instead make it an intellectual head game?

Because jazz is now an intellectual head game. Do you know of any college that offers a rock program? An R&B program? A latin program?

How come I have so many private students who are in jr high or high school jazz band, but none of them own even one jazz record!? They say they want to play jazz, but they don't even know who Oscar Pettiford is!? And then they wonder why they never know what the hell is going on.

Probably because it's treated as classical music, it's not the pop-ular music of today as it was in 50 or more years ago when jazz tunes were the chart toppers.

If you want to take your playing to the next level, you MUST immerse yourself in the music. There ain't no other way. Every great jazz musician I know is steeped in the tradition of the music. Don't think there are any shortcuts because unfortunately, there are none.

That's why I say, if you want to learn Four, get the record and learn it the right way.

Just my opinion...

Can't argue with this.

 

[ryco]

Since you're in dire need, try this:

Play the root, 2nd, 3rd and 5th of each of the chords you listed. You will need to know of course what notes make up the chords listed. This will put you in the ball park and give you a framework in which to work. Some other time hopefully you can study this and create your own lines.

You can also walk down root, 7th, 6th, 5th of each chord. Yes Ed - 4ths are wunnerful-a-wunnerful. And tho this approach may sound "stilted", this guy is a beginner and this is as good a place as any for starting out learning to walk. By the tone of the original post, it sounded like he was looking for a quick fix in an emergency situation. Great posts - you guys have given this lad much to consider while learning jazz! peace out