Warped Tour 2002...

[Ad Nauseam]

"When we all think alike, nobody thinks very much. This applied to Germany under Hitler – and it applies to North America under Capitalism." – Wilfred Bricker

Punk isn't about being a rebel outcast, it's about individual thinking. Sometimes individuals are outcast for that very reason.

All I know is that the Warped Tour markets Punk the same way they do YooHoo; they give you a little shot of it, don't tell you what's in it, and try to be hip about it while not knowing what it is themselves.

Outcast? You bet I was! I can't remember the last time someone wanted to take my picture because it would "scare their friends", let alone do so at a "punk" concert where there would *normally be* plenty of against-the-grain styles.


SJ, Glad you listened! Paganism isn't a sin, though. Khakis probably are.

BTW, I went to SixFlags today and it was a lot like being at WT...
Hot, lots of string bikinis, plenty of 10 year olds, Over priced, under staffed, people calling me over to see their booths...

and all the rides I wanted to go on were closed!


~Ad

 

[Jordan Luff]

My friend Mick wants to take me to WT this August. He's a huge punk rock fan (Bad Religion, NOFX, Rancid, etc.), and he hates a lot of the poppy-crap that's being marketed by MTV. I'm going to go, but only just to hang with him and to hopefully see some of the punk and hardcore I'm into. This definately sounds like it could be a disapointment, but I'd still like to go, just for the experience of going there. I'm not worried about being surrounded all the punk rock wannabe bands and khaki short kids...I'm not into any specific "label."

 

[Dave Siff]

Originally posted by Ad Nauseam
All I know is that the Warped Tour markets Punk the same way they do YooHoo; they give you a little shot of it, don't tell you what's in it, and try to be hip about it while not knowing what it is themselves.

Maybe so. I'm really not looking at it on that deep a level. A bunch of bands that I like are playing, so I'm going.. simple as that.
Oh, and you were right on the money with the 6 Flags comment!

 

[melvin]

Originally posted by Dave Siff

Maybe so. I'm really not looking at it on that deep a level. A bunch of bands that I like are playing, so I'm going.. simple as that.

Thats why I went.

 

[lo-end]

I saw this on a Propaghandi fan site. Sounds kinda hypocritical to me...

If you're really into punk, than you probably already know that it's more the way of living than only the music. If you're only listening to Green Day and Lagwagon, you probably don't even know what am I talking about. It is all about changing your corrupt lifestyle that has been enforced on you by the others to the clean, smart and cruelty free one! There's not really much for me to say since the essays speak for themselves. To make it shorter: smash capitalism, **** religion, stop eating animals, stop homophobia, confront fascism and stop environment polution!

This guy sounds like a total idiot. Like I really need to stop believing in God and eating meat to become a "true punk"

 

[Peter McFerrin]

The more effort you exert to show how much of a "free-thinking individual" you are by quoting Chomsky and dressing like you just walked out of a Bowery squat, the less freedom of thought you truly have.

In my sojourn on this rock, I have yet to encounter a group that demands ideological and sartorial purity quite on the level of self-styled punks, not even jocko-homo Republican fratboys (and their sorostitute consorts), or Bible-thumping fundamentalists. Where's the freedom and individuality in that? Don't they realize that ideological bloodletting merely alienates and divides?

I have some friends with anarchosyndicalist views that are very similar to those of the political punks that I've encountered. The reason that they're tolerable, and the punks are not, is that these guys have no interest in assailing other people for being "social conformists" or "mindless masses." They dress quite plainly in clothes that are comfortable, durable, and affordable. They have no interest in presenting an image of rebellion, even though their politics are just about as radical as you'll find on the planet. I wish more left-wingers were like them; then, perhaps, liberalism wouldn't be so unpopular in this country.

 

[Ad Nauseam]

Peter,
You seem to be very concerned about image, since you readily attack mine.
I dress my own style. You might consider it "rebellious" but I think it is quite toned-down. I dress this way for myself, since I'm happy this way. I haven't even changed my style too much in the last 10 years since I am so content with it. I'm not attempting to freak people out or distance myself from them, but people who are shallow or narrow minded enough to allow that to happen are doing so on their own preconceived and ignorant notions.

Bands like Greenday or Blink prove that it's not about the image, since they dress "punk" but portray mainstream. I have seen many underground fashions that differ wildly from each other, some I like and some I don't. I would not consider Punk styles so rebellious unless the person was trying hard just to get attention or to cause conflict in a dress-code system. I'm not trying to make a statement with how I dress, I'm just downright bored (sometimes appalled) with what the world has to offer along the lines of popular attire.

I never said anything about what a Punk should look like, in fact I have always defended the idea that punk is not a style but rather a way of thinking and a way of life.
What I gather from your words is that if I were to approach you dressed in plain garb, you would most likely treat me in a manner much different than if I were to be "decked out" in stereotypical Punk style. Would I be a different person? Not at all. Laundry day might limit my wardrobe but not my character. You see Punks as a uniformed clique and you refuse to see the forest for the trees.
I know plenty of people that dress very plainly and contribute more to society and Punk ideology than myself... especially some of the bands that I listen to.
No one can judge a book by it's cover, surely you know that.

Have you ever heard of ManWoman? He is this guy who lives in Canada and has adorned his body with countless tattoos of swastikas. He affiliates himself with no hate groups and never has.
He is simply trying to redeem the original meaning of the Swastika (originally a good luck charm, arguably the oldest cross and emblem in the world) by being himself (a gentle natured and truly interesting person) and educating people when given the chance.
Do you see the relevance? People may distance themselves or even be hostile towards ManWoman because they are ignorant of what he stands for.

But not only are they ignorant of ManWoman's message, they have given their ignorance the room it needs to grow into unknowing blindness.
And why? Because they concern themselves so much with IMAGE and stereotypes.

If you think that Punks are so concerned about how they dress and what beliefs they represent that they "demand ideological and sartorial purity" to the point that they shun individuality then you are very misinformed. How could two punks have anything to discuss if all they did was nod in agreement with eachother no matter what the topic?
The Fratboy comment really struck me as being ignorant, since you have to go through hazing rituals to join a frat! Punk isn't a fraternity, it's a subculture. There is no applications or rituals in order to become part of a subculture, you let your ACTIONS and BELIEFS define you.
You either are or you are not, no one sets out to *become* punk. I never opened a door to some blinding light to have a few Punk icons proclaim that I have "acheived Punkness".
Of course there are ideologies that belong to the subculture, how could it exist without them? All subcultures have distinctive patterns of behavior and beliefs onto their own. I enjoy and associate with the Punk scene because I can come in contact with individuals who share common interests and beliefs. (which I should have been able to do if the Warped Tour retained an ounce of Punk).

The only bloodletting is performed by an individual through his/her own hypocrisy...
I wouldn't make a good Hippy if I was a lumberjack by trade.
I wouldn't make a good Amish person if I continued using this computer.

I belong to a subculture just by being myself. I am an individual because I am true to myself and like and do a lot of things that are pretty specific to myself. If my views were to change in such a way that they countered the ideologies that are the foundation of this subculture, I should clearly be able to see them myself without pretending to be a part of it any longer.
Freedom and individuality? Well, nobody is holding a gun to my head forcing me to think and act the way I do. The foundation of Punk is all about freethought activism in an organized setting. I don't control the thoughts and actions of others nor do they, me. I love to hang out with my friends and party, talk about world events, play music and educate eachother. I like to participate in rallys and I like to do volunteer work. I like to promote local shows and I like to write commentaries in zines.
I only alienate myself from the parts of society that I strongly disagree with, and only by factual evidence that they represent what I despise.
My beliefs don't conflict with my functuality in life, but you seem to involve yourself a great deal in my beliefs. Do I represent some sort of threat to you? I am pretty curious since you like to twist the topic around whenever it involves something Punk. Often, it's as if you follow me around on this board now, looking for a nice place to submit a jab.
Something personal, Pete? Please PM me if you have got a problem with me.


Lo-end,
Yeah, that guy sounds like a twit. The first two setences were nice and then he led into some infintile and ambiguous nonsense. I wonder exactly how he "smashes capitalism" or "confronts Fascism". Actions speak louder than buttons... this guy sounds like he has a lot of buttons.

~Ad

 

[Jordan Luff]

Unfortunately, the same is true with the Gothic culture. I find it sad that the mainstream media (MTV, radio, etc.) is taking Punk and Goth and distorting them into their own versions of "rebellious" marketing schemes.

Today, being "punk" is no longer about standing up for your beliefs or against what you believe to be wrong (or anything Ad said Punk is truly about). Today, "punk" is about wearing clothes from PacSun and Hot Topic and listening to Blink, Green Day, and whatever else MTV deems as "punk."

I'm not saying that because it doesn't sound like Bad Religion or NOFX that it's not Punk. I'm saying most of what MTV markets, namely "pop-punk," don't resemble the messages the pioneers of true Punk. Usually, all they sing about is breaking up with girls and....well, breaking up with girls.

This totally takes a different direction from what Punk is (or was) all about. And the same with Goth. Toay, being Goth is about owning every item of clothing from Hot Topic and listening to Korn and Slipknot, and watching Invader Zim (nothing wrong with Zim, folks, just stating a theory ).

Anyway, when it all comes down to it, Ad is only trying to say what most people think of as "punk," is truly not Punk. It's just another plan by the media to milk the $$$ out of the MTV generation.
Punk is not a style, it is a way of life.
Goth is not a style, it is a way of life.
Straight-edge is not a style, it is a way of life.
And the same goes for every other stereo-type or label or culture....these names were put on these cultures not because of the way they dressed or the music they listened to (though those in themselves make the cultures unique), but what they are about. What they support. What they don't support. They're opinions. They're ideas.

Am I making any sense?

P.S. I'm not attacking anyone in this thread, nor am I disagreeing with anyone....rather, I am trying to reinforce Ad's statement and opinions.

 

[thebug]

talking about goths (or whatever you call 'em), I guess nine out of ten (or less) of them won't even know that the term "Gothic" was actually invented by Paradise Lost......

 

[jesus_monkey]

i went to warped tour and had a good time. does this made me a bad person?

 

[RJ]

No, but it does maKe you a bad person.

 

[ImitationCheese]

I just let my personality seperate me from other people

 

[Nomadic Herder]

My personality separates me from other people. And not because I want it to.

 

[thomas]

For those of us whose job it is to punk elite punk's been dead since the Sex Pistols.

As far keeping the punk ethos alive I think that some of the wierd hillbilly type bands do a much better job of it than anything you'll see at Warped Tour.

 

[RJ]

For those of us whose job it is to punk elite punk's been dead since the Sex Pistols.

You have no fuggin idea what you are talking about do you?

The Sex Pistols were the first frickin boy band. They had Sid around for image. He couldnt play, he was always wasted. He was hardly even plugged in and didnt even play on the CDs. He was there to look punk. As for the rest of the band...I think the add they did for some vodka "Nevermind the Sex Pistols...heres *brand name here* pretty much sums up there punk mentality. So much was wrong with what you just said. Hopefully someone will back me up on this.

 

[Ad Nauseam]

Thomas is just being silly. The Sex Pistols had some good songs but were the most exploited band in Punk outside of Pop-punk. Rotten had some interesting things to say, but you would be nullifiing the Dead Kennedys, Fugazi (and everything that led up to Fugazi), etc. if you were to stand by that statement. And look where Rotten is today. His music reaches more consumers than it does Punk rockers.
Besides, being as bold as to say that an entire subculture died with the end of a band is pretty ridiculous.

The hillbilly quote was a bit on the mark though. Many true Punk bands today are not even considered Punk by the mainstream.

~Ad

 

[thomas]

Originally posted by old_skool


You have no fuggin idea what you are talking about do you?

The Sex Pistols were the first frickin boy band. They had Sid around for image. He couldnt play, he was always wasted. He was hardly even plugged in and didnt even play on the CDs. He was there to look punk. As for the rest of the band...I think the add they did for some vodka "Nevermind the Sex Pistols...heres *brand name here* pretty much sums up there punk mentality. So much was wrong with what you just said. Hopefully someone will back me up on this.

What was wrong with what I said? Sex Pistols were the most obvious sign of the decline of the punk ethos. Therefor, punk has been dead since the Sex Pistols.

My point was that Malcolm (MacLaren?) pretty much killed the spirit of the music.

 

[Ad Nauseam]

Originally posted by thomas



What was wrong with what I said? Sex Pistols were the most obvious sign of the decline of the punk ethos. Therefor, punk has been dead since the Sex Pistols.

My point was that Malcolm (MacLaren?) pretty much killed the spirit of the music.

Besides, being as bold as to say that an entire subculture died with the end of a band is pretty ridiculous.
Besides, being as bold as to say that an entire subculture died with the end of a band is pretty ridiculous.
Besides, being as bold as to say that an entire subculture died with the end of a band is pretty ridiculous.
Besides, being as bold as to say that an entire subculture died with the end of a band is pretty ridiculous.
Besides, being as bold as to say that an entire subculture died with the end of a band is pretty ridiculous.
Besides, being as bold as to say that an entire subculture died with the end of a band is pretty ridiculous.

 

[RJ]

WORD.

 

[Pea-NUT]

I went to warped tour.
I really loved seeing Thrice, Thursday, Anti-flag. My favs. among all. I missed Hot Water Music, but that was because Thrice played at the same time.
By reading all of what was posted in this thread, ive seen some thoughtless posts, but i agree mostly with everything ad nauseam has said. Im glad to see more people like this, you couldn't have said it any better.